1 00:00:12,999 --> 00:00:09,500 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:16,820 --> 00:00:13,009 from Australia for science and reason 3 00:00:20,580 --> 00:00:16,830 yuria hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan 4 00:00:25,900 --> 00:00:23,560 Richard welcome to the zone once again 5 00:00:27,580 --> 00:00:25,910 zone number five it's good to be here 6 00:00:29,470 --> 00:00:27,590 what an amazing time it is there's a 7 00:00:31,630 --> 00:00:29,480 whole transformation of the entire 8 00:00:34,270 --> 00:00:31,640 planet has happened because a bunch of 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:34,280 people went and tick the box on a piece 10 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:36,650 of paper I was advising people over the 11 00:00:39,700 --> 00:00:38,210 Internet to vote in the United States 12 00:00:42,670 --> 00:00:39,710 and eighth I think they took my advice 13 00:00:45,070 --> 00:00:42,680 took your advise it it's all yours but 14 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:45,080 yeah thank you yes thank you yes I had a 15 00:00:49,689 --> 00:00:46,850 little from Obama thanking me personally 16 00:00:53,020 --> 00:00:49,699 was so nice oh nice that a you can feel 17 00:00:54,579 --> 00:00:53,030 the wave of joy I'm going across the 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:00:54,589 world can't you as everyone's realizing 19 00:01:01,110 --> 00:00:59,210 that the tough at last oh that that dude 20 00:01:04,390 --> 00:01:01,120 whoever I dude what she's known for 21 00:01:06,670 --> 00:01:04,400 George yeah things I think you need you 22 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:06,680 whoever yeah yeah yeah he's out of here 23 00:01:10,510 --> 00:01:09,170 so bad it's a good thing I think it's a 24 00:01:12,130 --> 00:01:10,520 great thing because there was always a 25 00:01:14,530 --> 00:01:12,140 worried that over the last eight years 26 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:14,540 there was some sort of they call it the 27 00:01:19,899 --> 00:01:17,450 republican war on science yeah yeah yeah 28 00:01:22,060 --> 00:01:19,909 you're the anti science perspective I 29 00:01:23,500 --> 00:01:22,070 mean forget about the wars and all all 30 00:01:25,750 --> 00:01:23,510 the other stuff but the actual war on 31 00:01:29,890 --> 00:01:25,760 science has been been incredible a part 32 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:29,900 of that war on science has been the good 33 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:31,850 I'll good old buddies and pals and 34 00:01:36,310 --> 00:01:34,490 friends the creationists yes because 35 00:01:37,740 --> 00:01:36,320 they they they don't really like science 36 00:01:39,820 --> 00:01:37,750 because science kind of ends up 37 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:39,830 disproving a lot of things that they 38 00:01:44,530 --> 00:01:42,170 like to hold ah like they can't have 39 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:44,540 that so this issue of the the skeptic 40 00:01:48,940 --> 00:01:46,730 zones a special creationist issue we've 41 00:01:50,590 --> 00:01:48,950 got dr. Eugenie Scott from the National 42 00:01:52,540 --> 00:01:50,600 Center for Science Education now that's 43 00:01:54,700 --> 00:01:52,550 in Oakland and she's going to talk to us 44 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:54,710 about interesting things like the movie 45 00:02:00,040 --> 00:01:57,530 expelled which is all about that one oh 46 00:02:01,810 --> 00:02:00,050 it's all about intelligent design oh why 47 00:02:03,820 --> 00:02:01,820 did you say she's from the creation side 48 00:02:06,790 --> 00:02:03,830 oh she's from the National often the 49 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:06,800 actual so actual circuits right I see 50 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:09,050 well it's gonna be interesting special 51 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:11,090 to enjoy later because it's quite a 52 00:02:15,670 --> 00:02:13,250 quite a hot topic at the moment I'm in 53 00:02:17,259 --> 00:02:15,680 the internet is abuzz with all kinds of 54 00:02:19,420 --> 00:02:17,269 arguments and debates and you know 55 00:02:21,339 --> 00:02:19,430 people's tempers start a flaw it does 56 00:02:23,199 --> 00:02:21,349 then we've got an interview with dr. 57 00:02:25,340 --> 00:02:23,209 Paul Willis from the ABC here in 58 00:02:27,350 --> 00:02:25,350 Australia oh he's a paleontology 59 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:27,360 yeah and he is going to talk about the 60 00:02:31,370 --> 00:02:29,970 time he debated the creationists oh yeah 61 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:31,380 what's that because I mean it but he 62 00:02:34,730 --> 00:02:32,730 would have come to that agreement that 63 00:02:36,350 --> 00:02:34,740 all dinosaurs have just been placed 64 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:36,360 there by God just to trick us into 65 00:02:41,060 --> 00:02:38,850 thinking that evolution existed just to 66 00:02:44,030 --> 00:02:41,070 test our faith your that's obvious as 67 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:44,040 there's no it's pretty amazing isn't it 68 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:46,050 I mean but I guess that the issue is 69 00:02:51,170 --> 00:02:48,450 either that the tricky thing is that we 70 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:51,180 all don't know how the hell we really 71 00:02:55,250 --> 00:02:53,250 got here like what how the universe got 72 00:02:57,380 --> 00:02:55,260 here so it's understandable that if you 73 00:02:59,690 --> 00:02:57,390 if you if you're not willing to go into 74 00:03:02,720 --> 00:02:59,700 the absolute complexities and that 75 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:02,730 almost mind-blowing mind-blowing pneus 76 00:03:08,090 --> 00:03:05,850 of science it's sort of an easy way out 77 00:03:09,590 --> 00:03:08,100 to just say well just this dude called 78 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:09,600 God did it yeah that's easy isn't like 79 00:03:12,890 --> 00:03:10,890 what were we just say that in the future 80 00:03:16,730 --> 00:03:12,900 how you listening to this podcast well 81 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:16,740 God did it no yeah I mean but it's 82 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:19,050 tricky I mean yeah you look at reality 83 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:20,490 and you just wonder what the hell 84 00:03:24,590 --> 00:03:22,410 happened how to get here I'm pretty 85 00:03:26,300 --> 00:03:24,600 unreal yeah it's pretty unreal bits but 86 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:26,310 science is probably got the best chance 87 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:28,650 of finding out how than anyone I think 88 00:03:33,890 --> 00:03:31,370 so and to round off the show we have a 89 00:03:35,690 --> 00:03:33,900 short interview with Tiffany day from 90 00:03:37,580 --> 00:03:35,700 Macquarie University who's going to tell 91 00:03:39,470 --> 00:03:37,590 us more about the Macquarie skeptics a 92 00:03:40,970 --> 00:03:39,480 very interesting new group oh yes they 93 00:03:42,620 --> 00:03:40,980 were great w/e were there the other day 94 00:03:44,330 --> 00:03:42,630 they were actually quite quite 95 00:03:46,970 --> 00:03:44,340 enthusiastic and quite a lot of fun it 96 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:46,980 was a lot of fun a quick talk with sam 97 00:03:50,390 --> 00:03:49,110 whiteman who is a young scientist who 98 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:50,400 won lots of awards being a young 99 00:03:54,410 --> 00:03:52,050 scientist we've got the old think tank 100 00:03:56,930 --> 00:03:54,420 of course and dr. Richie reports or 101 00:03:58,910 --> 00:03:56,940 Richard it's another fun-filled an 102 00:04:01,310 --> 00:03:58,920 action-packed episode of the skeptics 103 00:04:02,990 --> 00:04:01,320 are hardly contain myself Stefan so we'd 104 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:03,000 better get straight into it or I let's 105 00:04:10,570 --> 00:04:04,410 get a rocker with the first segment 106 00:04:16,190 --> 00:04:13,040 hello from West Auckland here in 107 00:04:18,050 --> 00:04:16,200 California and I'm here with dr. Eugenie 108 00:04:20,210 --> 00:04:18,060 Scott and we're at the National Center 109 00:04:21,890 --> 00:04:20,220 for Science Education hello Jeanie hey 110 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:21,900 there good to see you again thank you 111 00:04:26,210 --> 00:04:23,610 it's been it's been about four years 112 00:04:28,940 --> 00:04:26,220 since I was here last to visit you and 113 00:04:31,910 --> 00:04:28,950 Excel and I think that the time we were 114 00:04:34,250 --> 00:04:31,920 discussing your institution seems to 115 00:04:36,980 --> 00:04:34,260 take 12 steps forward and one step back 116 00:04:38,750 --> 00:04:36,990 or in your fight against creationist 117 00:04:42,350 --> 00:04:38,760 sometimes we have a couple steps to the 118 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:42,360 side to the side yes now of course since 119 00:04:45,860 --> 00:04:44,010 I spoke to you last I guess one of the 120 00:04:47,870 --> 00:04:45,870 things that's caught the popular 121 00:04:51,590 --> 00:04:47,880 attention especially in the skeptical 122 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:51,600 world would be the movie expelled yes 123 00:04:55,940 --> 00:04:53,730 and you were just showing me now on 124 00:04:58,490 --> 00:04:55,950 YouTube some of the videos you've put up 125 00:05:00,860 --> 00:04:58,500 and counter to that you know we really 126 00:05:03,890 --> 00:05:00,870 had to think very carefully about how we 127 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:03,900 were going to address expelled no 128 00:05:09,020 --> 00:05:05,610 intelligence allowed that's the full 129 00:05:11,090 --> 00:05:09,030 name of the movie starring ben stein we 130 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:11,100 knew about it several months before it 131 00:05:17,150 --> 00:05:14,490 was released we got a pretty good idea 132 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:17,160 from various sources and leaks and so 133 00:05:21,650 --> 00:05:19,050 forth loose lips sink ships and you know 134 00:05:24,350 --> 00:05:21,660 we had a pretty good idea about what it 135 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:24,360 was going to cover the thrust of the 136 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:27,090 video and we knew that it was really 137 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:29,850 going to be necessary to do something to 138 00:05:36,530 --> 00:05:34,170 to counter it it's a attack on science 139 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:36,540 and its attack on evolution and in 140 00:05:42,050 --> 00:05:39,210 looking at the website and just the 141 00:05:43,610 --> 00:05:42,060 general marketing of this movie we 142 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:43,620 figure that their marketing it to young 143 00:05:48,980 --> 00:05:45,690 people okay so where do young people go 144 00:05:51,980 --> 00:05:48,990 young people go to the Internet young 145 00:05:54,110 --> 00:05:51,990 people don't read offense in newspapers 146 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:54,120 they go to youtube you know so we 147 00:06:00,940 --> 00:05:57,690 decided NCSE decided we needed to have a 148 00:06:04,130 --> 00:06:00,950 presence on youtube as well so we 149 00:06:08,690 --> 00:06:04,140 budgeted for and budgeted staff to 150 00:06:11,060 --> 00:06:08,700 produce for vioz now then we had to 151 00:06:13,700 --> 00:06:11,070 think about what exactly are we going to 152 00:06:15,050 --> 00:06:13,710 cover here because at the time that we 153 00:06:16,410 --> 00:06:15,060 had to make these which of course is in 154 00:06:19,110 --> 00:06:16,420 the fall of 155 00:06:21,260 --> 00:06:19,120 last year we didn't know whether 156 00:06:24,510 --> 00:06:21,270 expelled was going to be a huge success 157 00:06:25,980 --> 00:06:24,520 or whether it was going to be a flop so 158 00:06:29,250 --> 00:06:25,990 we didn't want to spend all this money 159 00:06:31,620 --> 00:06:29,260 and do all his work on a series of short 160 00:06:36,030 --> 00:06:31,630 youtube type videos that were going to 161 00:06:39,990 --> 00:06:36,040 be obsolete if you if expelled turned 162 00:06:42,450 --> 00:06:40,000 into a dead yeah so we decided to to 163 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:42,460 talk about evolution and talk about the 164 00:06:46,050 --> 00:06:44,290 creation and evolution issue and talk 165 00:06:49,500 --> 00:06:46,060 about the things that we wanted to talk 166 00:06:54,570 --> 00:06:49,510 about but do them in a way that it would 167 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:54,580 be relevant to diffusing expel Joey 168 00:06:59,130 --> 00:06:56,650 season so the kinds of themes that we 169 00:07:01,290 --> 00:06:59,140 talked about in our four short videos 170 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:01,300 we're all themes that showed up and 171 00:07:05,250 --> 00:07:02,890 expel but they could also stand in the 172 00:07:07,530 --> 00:07:05,260 road right good idea yes so what we did 173 00:07:10,170 --> 00:07:07,540 is we came up with a website which we 174 00:07:11,430 --> 00:07:10,180 I'm sorry not a website we came up all 175 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:11,440 right we did that's another thing I'll 176 00:07:16,860 --> 00:07:13,450 tell you about but we came up with a 177 00:07:20,790 --> 00:07:16,870 youtube home I guess you could call it 178 00:07:23,010 --> 00:07:20,800 called expelled exposed although at some 179 00:07:25,050 --> 00:07:23,020 point where we may change that name 180 00:07:27,060 --> 00:07:25,060 expelled did turn out to be a dud 181 00:07:29,310 --> 00:07:27,070 fortunately although it's probably going 182 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:29,320 to have quite a quite a future and 183 00:07:34,620 --> 00:07:31,330 church basements and you know we'll be 184 00:07:37,110 --> 00:07:34,630 coping with it for years yeah but we 185 00:07:39,170 --> 00:07:37,120 also in addition to our YouTube videos 186 00:07:41,460 --> 00:07:39,180 so any of your listeners can go to 187 00:07:43,410 --> 00:07:41,470 youtube and just type in expelled 188 00:07:47,130 --> 00:07:43,420 exposed all one word and they'll get our 189 00:07:52,350 --> 00:07:47,140 videos but we also decided that we 190 00:07:54,630 --> 00:07:52,360 needed to have a detailed debunking if 191 00:07:56,310 --> 00:07:54,640 you will of the claims that are made in 192 00:07:58,340 --> 00:07:56,320 the movie you know the claims that there 193 00:08:00,840 --> 00:07:58,350 are this there are a number of 194 00:08:02,370 --> 00:08:00,850 scientists that have been discriminated 195 00:08:05,850 --> 00:08:02,380 against because of their support of 196 00:08:08,130 --> 00:08:05,860 intelligent design another nonsense so 197 00:08:11,420 --> 00:08:08,140 we did set up a separate website called 198 00:08:15,390 --> 00:08:11,430 expelled exposed calm all one word and 199 00:08:18,660 --> 00:08:15,400 at expelled exposed calm we do the good 200 00:08:21,810 --> 00:08:18,670 old wonky and CSE thing of having lots 201 00:08:23,790 --> 00:08:21,820 of information and lots of links and so 202 00:08:24,930 --> 00:08:23,800 it's your one-stop shopping if you want 203 00:08:26,730 --> 00:08:24,940 to know what's wrong with the movie 204 00:08:27,470 --> 00:08:26,740 expelled you can go to spelled exposed 205 00:08:30,380 --> 00:08:27,480 calm 206 00:08:32,540 --> 00:08:30,390 and I I've been very pleased with its 207 00:08:34,700 --> 00:08:32,550 reception that's gotten good reception 208 00:08:38,140 --> 00:08:34,710 right but the mayor's you say the movie 209 00:08:42,710 --> 00:08:38,150 itself wasn't done fortunately because 210 00:08:45,050 --> 00:08:42,720 the the mass media is so incredibly 211 00:08:47,330 --> 00:08:45,060 powerful especially compared to a little 212 00:08:49,430 --> 00:08:47,340 tiny nonprofit like us I mean we there's 213 00:08:53,540 --> 00:08:49,440 just no way we could have had the kind 214 00:08:56,450 --> 00:08:53,550 of exposure to the to the general public 215 00:08:59,480 --> 00:08:56,460 that the people who paid for expel did 216 00:09:01,370 --> 00:08:59,490 you mean they I should know this number 217 00:09:04,550 --> 00:09:01,380 exactly now except that I've sort of 218 00:09:07,220 --> 00:09:04,560 forgotten it but they released and 219 00:09:09,620 --> 00:09:07,230 something like what was it about 1400 220 00:09:11,270 --> 00:09:09,630 movie theaters nationwide died it's on 221 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:11,280 expelled exposed to be want to look at 222 00:09:16,430 --> 00:09:13,890 it yeah and the way they promoted the 223 00:09:19,910 --> 00:09:16,440 movie was also a little bit frightening 224 00:09:22,130 --> 00:09:19,920 to us and it made us nervous the same 225 00:09:26,990 --> 00:09:22,140 company that promoted the Mel Gibson 226 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:27,000 movie Passion of the Christ was used to 227 00:09:31,610 --> 00:09:29,610 promote expelled and they promoted it 228 00:09:34,580 --> 00:09:31,620 the same way this viral marketing where 229 00:09:36,620 --> 00:09:34,590 you have a whole series for months 230 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:36,630 before the actual release of the movies 231 00:09:43,790 --> 00:09:39,450 you have a series of screenings of the 232 00:09:46,300 --> 00:09:43,800 movie in churches and other public 233 00:09:48,380 --> 00:09:46,310 places where where you invite 234 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:48,390 religiously conservative generally 235 00:09:53,270 --> 00:09:50,370 conservative Christians to attend and 236 00:09:55,730 --> 00:09:53,280 see this movie for free with the goal of 237 00:09:57,020 --> 00:09:55,740 getting them all excited and revved up 238 00:09:59,210 --> 00:09:57,030 about this movie so that when it 239 00:10:01,790 --> 00:09:59,220 actually does come out in theaters they 240 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:01,800 go to it they bring their friends you 241 00:10:06,620 --> 00:10:04,170 have a huge opening weekend and that 242 00:10:09,050 --> 00:10:06,630 gives the film legs to continue for 243 00:10:11,870 --> 00:10:09,060 several more weeks that's it worked 244 00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:11,880 beautifully for Passion of the Christ it 245 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:14,160 worked for the first weekend for its 246 00:10:21,740 --> 00:10:18,210 belt and after the first weekend you can 247 00:10:24,460 --> 00:10:21,750 see the number of theaters the number of 248 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:24,470 people going to expel the number of 249 00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:27,930 dollars that expel generates start a 250 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:29,760 gradual decline yeah a fairly 251 00:10:34,310 --> 00:10:31,770 precipitous decline yeah and within six 252 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:34,320 weeks it was out of the theaters and now 253 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:36,930 we're eagerly awaiting the DVD release 254 00:10:41,710 --> 00:10:38,490 yeah that's going to be 255 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:41,720 another headache for us and why we keep 256 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:46,050 expelled exposed a comma and why are we 257 00:10:50,329 --> 00:10:47,490 hope that people will continue looking 258 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:50,339 at our videos and YouTube because plan 259 00:10:57,199 --> 00:10:54,570 now is to get these DVDs into public 260 00:10:59,360 --> 00:10:57,209 schools and teachers are going to be 261 00:11:01,370 --> 00:10:59,370 encouraged to bring this information to 262 00:11:06,470 --> 00:11:01,380 the students and of course it's highly 263 00:11:08,540 --> 00:11:06,480 impractical it's a the movie is I forget 264 00:11:11,900 --> 00:11:08,550 exactly how long it is but it's like 90 265 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:11,910 minutes or something I mean you can't 266 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:13,610 show the whole thing in a classroom 267 00:11:17,540 --> 00:11:15,690 you're gonna have to just show bits and 268 00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:17,550 pieces but even so it's it's completely 269 00:11:22,250 --> 00:11:19,529 inappropriate yeah for a public school 270 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:22,260 classroom I would say if I had to choose 271 00:11:28,340 --> 00:11:25,290 one bright point of light as it were in 272 00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:28,350 the last five years it's the kitzmiller 273 00:11:35,780 --> 00:11:31,680 versus Dover trial very famous yes yes 274 00:11:38,180 --> 00:11:35,790 we we were involved in that from the 275 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:38,190 get-go because we were invited viding 276 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:39,810 some of the parents in the community I 277 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:43,730 had worked previously years ago with the 278 00:11:53,690 --> 00:11:50,250 NCSE had worked with the ACLU personnel 279 00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:53,700 in Pennsylvania so when the citizens 280 00:11:59,360 --> 00:11:56,160 decided to sue they call the ACLU the 281 00:12:05,180 --> 00:11:59,370 ACLU called us we put together a legal 282 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:05,190 team we advised on we advise the legal 283 00:12:12,530 --> 00:12:10,290 team as to recommendations for expert 284 00:12:13,970 --> 00:12:12,540 witnesses they took our recommendations 285 00:12:16,460 --> 00:12:13,980 and we're very happy with the expert 286 00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:16,470 witnesses we also help to prepare the 287 00:12:22,610 --> 00:12:20,240 lawyers as to the positions of the 288 00:12:24,860 --> 00:12:22,620 witnesses on the other side and of 289 00:12:26,329 --> 00:12:24,870 course just to sort of educate them give 290 00:12:28,970 --> 00:12:26,339 them the background materials that they 291 00:12:30,889 --> 00:12:28,980 needed for understanding intelligent 292 00:12:32,569 --> 00:12:30,899 design understanding the history of this 293 00:12:33,730 --> 00:12:32,579 moment and it turned out that the 294 00:12:37,930 --> 00:12:33,740 history of the movement 295 00:12:41,020 --> 00:12:37,940 is critical in helping to convince the 296 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:41,030 judge that this intelligent design was 297 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:43,130 really just a retooled form of creation 298 00:12:48,130 --> 00:12:45,890 since good and since the courts had 299 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:48,140 already judged that creation science was 300 00:12:52,630 --> 00:12:50,690 a constitutional to teach once we have 301 00:12:57,220 --> 00:12:52,640 linked intelligent design with creation 302 00:12:58,960 --> 00:12:57,230 science we want yeah yeah the Nuggets 303 00:13:02,460 --> 00:12:58,970 event is a famous case and I've heard 304 00:13:05,470 --> 00:13:02,470 you on other skeptical podcasts 305 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:05,480 discussing this case at length and the 306 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:08,210 the judgment apparently makes for very 307 00:13:12,370 --> 00:13:10,010 good reading and that's day as indeed 308 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:12,380 that can be downloaded yes I did yeah on 309 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:15,290 our website we have in fact on our 310 00:13:22,530 --> 00:13:19,610 website a section on evolution education 311 00:13:27,250 --> 00:13:22,540 and the law and we have not only the 312 00:13:29,770 --> 00:13:27,260 full decision of kids mother versus 313 00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:29,780 Dover but all of the court transcripts 314 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:32,000 mmm all of the witness statements from 315 00:13:38,860 --> 00:13:35,450 both sides all of the filings on both 316 00:13:42,340 --> 00:13:38,870 sides we have the most complete origin 317 00:13:46,650 --> 00:13:42,350 could ever possibly spend time we were 318 00:13:49,870 --> 00:13:46,660 you present at the deck I attended the 319 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:49,880 actual trial as many days as I could run 320 00:13:54,820 --> 00:13:52,970 but you know Judge Jones just didn't 321 00:13:58,600 --> 00:13:54,830 consult my speaking schedule before he 322 00:14:00,700 --> 00:13:58,610 said the Tahoe so I but it must have 323 00:14:03,820 --> 00:14:00,710 been very exciting to be there it was 324 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:03,830 fabulous yeah yeah it was very exciting 325 00:14:14,020 --> 00:14:09,650 and I also went back in December when 326 00:14:18,850 --> 00:14:14,030 the decision was announced and was there 327 00:14:20,410 --> 00:14:18,860 with the lawyers when the federal 328 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:20,420 district court in the Middle District of 329 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:22,610 Pennsylvania posted the decision on a 330 00:14:27,820 --> 00:14:25,370 website and we were in the law offices 331 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:27,830 and refreshing our screens are you know 332 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:30,850 not 25 seconds or so anticipating this 333 00:14:37,660 --> 00:14:34,970 and we grabbed it we read it and it was 334 00:14:39,940 --> 00:14:37,670 just pandemonium or is it really oh wow 335 00:14:44,110 --> 00:14:39,950 it was great people course the lawyers 336 00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:46,060 was the page that they wanted room I of 337 00:14:53,380 --> 00:14:48,800 course started really we want yeah and 338 00:14:57,490 --> 00:14:53,390 and we won we didn't just win but we won 339 00:15:00,010 --> 00:14:57,500 big yeah yeah it could have been decided 340 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:00,020 it could have been decided very narrowly 341 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:02,690 could have been decided that intelligent 342 00:15:07,660 --> 00:15:04,730 design that the policy that the Dover 343 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:07,670 school district had on teaching 344 00:15:12,190 --> 00:15:10,490 intelligent design was unconstitutional 345 00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:12,200 because the purpose of the school board 346 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:14,480 members in proposing isn't pushing it 347 00:15:18,910 --> 00:15:17,450 through really ramrodding a true was to 348 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:18,920 promote religion it could have been 349 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:21,770 decided on that very narrow ground but 350 00:15:27,550 --> 00:15:24,890 actually both sides had asked the judge 351 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:27,560 to make a ruling on whether intelligent 352 00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:29,810 design was or was not science well and 353 00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:32,720 even though the cautious thing for the 354 00:15:36,430 --> 00:15:34,310 judge would have been just to have taken 355 00:15:42,250 --> 00:15:36,440 the one point that would have been 356 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:42,260 sufficient to to disallow the policy as 357 00:15:47,290 --> 00:15:44,930 he wrote in the decision he spent all 358 00:15:50,140 --> 00:15:47,300 this time looking at this huge record 359 00:15:53,260 --> 00:15:50,150 having all of this expert testimony on 360 00:15:54,910 --> 00:15:53,270 science and I forget exactly the 361 00:15:57,310 --> 00:15:54,920 phrasing that the judge used in the 362 00:16:00,699 --> 00:15:57,320 decision but something like I would like 363 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:00,709 to to prevent this kind of waste of time 364 00:16:04,900 --> 00:16:02,930 and resources been some other judge so 365 00:16:06,970 --> 00:16:04,910 you know basically he did what both 366 00:16:08,890 --> 00:16:06,980 sides asked him to do and did rule on 367 00:16:10,990 --> 00:16:08,900 whether or not intelligent design 368 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:11,000 besides do you think the other side was 369 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:12,770 surprised so they could see this coming 370 00:16:19,690 --> 00:16:15,650 I think it was probably quite clear to 371 00:16:21,850 --> 00:16:19,700 the other side that we had put on a much 372 00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:21,860 much better show but you know the 373 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:30,460 really conducted the case with 374 00:16:36,090 --> 00:16:34,010 excruciating fairness both sides felt 375 00:16:38,829 --> 00:16:36,100 that they had had a chance to present 376 00:16:41,170 --> 00:16:38,839 anything they wanted to present I mean 377 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:41,180 if you if you read the transcripts 378 00:16:48,010 --> 00:16:44,570 you'll see things like the judge saying 379 00:16:50,140 --> 00:16:48,020 you know one side would eject say and 380 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:50,150 the judge would say what's the objection 381 00:16:54,130 --> 00:16:52,610 and one side would say why they think 382 00:16:55,330 --> 00:16:54,140 the testimony should have been stopped 383 00:16:57,610 --> 00:16:55,340 at that point 384 00:16:59,680 --> 00:16:57,620 in most cases the judge would say 385 00:17:01,480 --> 00:16:59,690 something like well you know i'll go 386 00:17:04,510 --> 00:17:01,490 ahead and hear it anyway since it's a 387 00:17:06,940 --> 00:17:04,520 bench trial the idea being that since he 388 00:17:10,380 --> 00:17:06,950 was a judge rather than a jury if it 389 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:10,390 turned out that the way that the 390 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:14,570 objective ol Train of testimony was 391 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:16,730 going did turn out to be something that 392 00:17:20,590 --> 00:17:18,410 was irrelevant or objectionable in some 393 00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:20,600 way then he would just disallow it in 394 00:17:23,230 --> 00:17:21,710 his mind and he could do that because 395 00:17:26,220 --> 00:17:23,240 he's a judge and he's used to doing that 396 00:17:29,140 --> 00:17:26,230 wrong a jury you'd be more cautious and 397 00:17:31,570 --> 00:17:29,150 although he did uphold some objections 398 00:17:34,630 --> 00:17:31,580 clearly but by and large his whole 399 00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:34,640 attitude was you know give me as much 400 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:36,710 information as you possibly can because 401 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:40,010 I want to hear the full presentation of 402 00:17:45,580 --> 00:17:43,370 both sides views and and both of both 403 00:17:47,140 --> 00:17:45,590 sides the lawyers from both sides have 404 00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:47,150 complimented him on that and this is 405 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:49,310 after the decision I mean they did heal 406 00:17:54,580 --> 00:17:50,810 that they got it that's good it's very 407 00:17:59,640 --> 00:17:54,590 good and the judge was not somebody who 408 00:18:02,970 --> 00:17:59,650 on paper you would think is going to 409 00:18:07,810 --> 00:18:02,980 jump over there next to the ACLU right 410 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:07,820 the judge was a Republican he had been 411 00:18:13,420 --> 00:18:10,610 nominated for the federal district judge 412 00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:13,430 ship position by a very very 413 00:18:18,340 --> 00:18:15,200 conservative Pennsylvania senator 414 00:18:20,890 --> 00:18:18,350 senator Santorum he had been appointed 415 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:20,900 by George Bush the new president the 416 00:18:27,130 --> 00:18:25,130 current he was a churchgoer he was 417 00:18:30,780 --> 00:18:27,140 viewed as a conservative Republican I 418 00:18:33,340 --> 00:18:30,790 mean there's you know he's in fact the 419 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:33,350 intelligent design blogs were crowing 420 00:18:37,690 --> 00:18:35,450 before the trial about it oh this guy's 421 00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:37,700 in our pocket huh or I'll bet they're 422 00:18:43,870 --> 00:18:40,160 really worried about him and yeah we 423 00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:43,880 really didn't know he turned out to be 424 00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:45,710 though a very broad minded and 425 00:18:52,090 --> 00:18:48,710 independent minded judge and actually a 426 00:18:55,780 --> 00:18:52,100 quite courageous judge I mean I assume 427 00:18:58,090 --> 00:18:55,790 that he has some political ambitions I 428 00:18:59,830 --> 00:18:58,100 mean most district court judges would 429 00:19:02,620 --> 00:18:59,840 love to be appointed to the appeals 430 00:19:05,050 --> 00:19:02,630 court which is the next layer the next 431 00:19:06,159 --> 00:19:05,060 level I don't know I mean I've never 432 00:19:07,899 --> 00:19:06,169 asked him he's never 433 00:19:09,999 --> 00:19:07,909 engine did but it wouldn't be surprising 434 00:19:12,450 --> 00:19:10,009 he ran for office in Pennsylvania 435 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:12,460 clearly has some political aspirations 436 00:19:20,590 --> 00:19:17,330 and frankly coming up with this decision 437 00:19:23,710 --> 00:19:20,600 is a pretty unpopular thing to do in a 438 00:19:26,109 --> 00:19:23,720 Republican administration he did not 439 00:19:27,549 --> 00:19:26,119 take the easy way out now the easy way 440 00:19:29,710 --> 00:19:27,559 out would have been to have done that 441 00:19:31,659 --> 00:19:29,720 very very narrow decision just on the 442 00:19:35,259 --> 00:19:31,669 basis of the reality of the school board 443 00:19:37,210 --> 00:19:35,269 member yeah but he did he issued his 444 00:19:39,460 --> 00:19:37,220 broad decision and he went over the 445 00:19:42,519 --> 00:19:39,470 evidence for why intelligent design is 446 00:19:45,099 --> 00:19:42,529 not science and the reason why that's 447 00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:45,109 important by the way to both sides is 448 00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:47,440 the way the American legal system works 449 00:20:00,549 --> 00:19:53,470 sayang church and state separation if a 450 00:20:05,529 --> 00:20:00,559 law or regulation like Dover's has a 451 00:20:07,539 --> 00:20:05,539 secular purpose it's it's it's okay to 452 00:20:10,389 --> 00:20:07,549 do it even if it has maybe maybe a 453 00:20:11,710 --> 00:20:10,399 slight religious implication or 454 00:20:14,109 --> 00:20:11,720 something if that's kind of just 455 00:20:15,999 --> 00:20:14,119 secondary you know I mean if you're you 456 00:20:19,149 --> 00:20:16,009 know if you're if you're feeding the 457 00:20:21,820 --> 00:20:19,159 hungry right and this is something that 458 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:21,830 Jesus said to do nonetheless feeding the 459 00:20:25,090 --> 00:20:23,210 hungry is still a good thing to do for 460 00:20:26,499 --> 00:20:25,100 society so there is a good secular 461 00:20:28,299 --> 00:20:26,509 reason to feed the hungry you're not 462 00:20:31,779 --> 00:20:28,309 necessarily doing it just for you to 463 00:20:33,609 --> 00:20:31,789 promoting religious anyway Wow so the 464 00:20:36,519 --> 00:20:33,619 whole argument of the intelligent design 465 00:20:39,039 --> 00:20:36,529 people was that intelligent design is a 466 00:20:41,889 --> 00:20:39,049 new science students should be exposed 467 00:20:44,289 --> 00:20:41,899 to this wonderful new science and it 468 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:44,299 especially would be good pedagogically 469 00:20:52,330 --> 00:20:50,330 for students to weigh intelligent design 470 00:20:54,729 --> 00:20:52,340 against evolution and as a critical 471 00:20:58,450 --> 00:20:54,739 thinking kind of exercise you know them 472 00:21:00,249 --> 00:20:58,460 struggle together and so forth if that 473 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:00,259 were the case then there would be a 474 00:21:04,749 --> 00:21:02,450 secular reason to teach intelligent 475 00:21:08,169 --> 00:21:04,759 design and the bull at the Dover policy 476 00:21:10,239 --> 00:21:08,179 might might have stood but our side of 477 00:21:12,639 --> 00:21:10,249 the argument was that that was rubbish 478 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:12,649 that intelligent design was just thinly 479 00:21:17,740 --> 00:21:15,530 disguised creationists yeah 480 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:17,750 and there was really no secular reason 481 00:21:23,260 --> 00:21:20,570 there's no good pedagogical reason to 482 00:21:26,830 --> 00:21:23,270 teach kids bad science and so the the 483 00:21:29,380 --> 00:21:26,840 argument for good pedagogy or certainly 484 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:29,390 failed and the argument that intelligent 485 00:21:33,910 --> 00:21:31,970 design was valid science fails well but 486 00:21:36,010 --> 00:21:33,920 the other the other side must have gone 487 00:21:37,930 --> 00:21:36,020 into this thinking they have a good shot 488 00:21:41,290 --> 00:21:37,940 at winning they did I mean do you think 489 00:21:43,330 --> 00:21:41,300 that that would I deal with a lot of 490 00:21:48,910 --> 00:21:43,340 time of people who claim to have psychic 491 00:21:50,980 --> 00:21:48,920 power and I'm often in in the position 492 00:21:54,940 --> 00:21:50,990 of thinking in my own mind now are these 493 00:21:56,860 --> 00:21:54,950 people sincerely deluded or or do they 494 00:21:59,260 --> 00:21:56,870 know they don't have any psychic power 495 00:22:02,620 --> 00:21:59,270 and they're just conning people people 496 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:02,630 going into this trial brought about this 497 00:22:07,570 --> 00:22:05,810 trial I'm would guessing would probably 498 00:22:10,930 --> 00:22:07,580 be in the kappa day sincerely believe 499 00:22:14,020 --> 00:22:10,940 it's absolutely real thing that that 500 00:22:16,210 --> 00:22:14,030 certainly is my impression yeah I'm sure 501 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:16,220 that Michael Behe and Scott men 502 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:18,530 according to expert witnesses and the 503 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:21,410 science side of things I am sure that 504 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:23,930 they firmly believe that intelligent 505 00:22:31,180 --> 00:22:28,930 design is a new scientific approach yeah 506 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:31,190 basically they had to do two things on 507 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:35,570 their side they had to make the argument 508 00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:38,450 that intelligent design was good science 509 00:22:45,370 --> 00:22:41,840 was a valid science was really science 510 00:22:47,650 --> 00:22:45,380 and you know it was was a good way of 511 00:22:53,140 --> 00:22:47,660 understanding nature and secondly this 512 00:22:55,330 --> 00:22:53,150 pedagogical argument that it's a good 513 00:22:57,190 --> 00:22:55,340 thing to teach to give students these 514 00:23:00,750 --> 00:22:57,200 alternate views and let them wrestle 515 00:23:03,370 --> 00:23:00,760 with it in a critical thinking exercise 516 00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:03,380 what the other side had to do when kids 517 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:04,880 mother versus Dover is show that 518 00:23:10,150 --> 00:23:06,770 intelligent design was good science 519 00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:10,160 valid science and secondly to show that 520 00:23:17,980 --> 00:23:14,480 evolution was really weak science just a 521 00:23:20,140 --> 00:23:17,990 theory just a theory well in fact the 522 00:23:22,990 --> 00:23:20,150 fairy not fact also came into the 523 00:23:25,570 --> 00:23:23,000 apology and the Dover teachers were 524 00:23:27,340 --> 00:23:25,580 fighting against but they they were 525 00:23:28,450 --> 00:23:27,350 going to attack evolution and they were 526 00:23:32,020 --> 00:23:28,460 going to 527 00:23:34,330 --> 00:23:32,030 hold up intelligent design as as a valid 528 00:23:37,420 --> 00:23:34,340 science and of course our job was to 529 00:23:39,250 --> 00:23:37,430 knock both of those off so we did have 530 00:23:42,550 --> 00:23:39,260 to spend some time showing that 531 00:23:44,830 --> 00:23:42,560 evolution was valid science that it was 532 00:23:46,660 --> 00:23:44,840 accepted by the vast majority of the 533 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:46,670 scientific community and actually that 534 00:23:52,300 --> 00:23:49,250 doesn't take very long but we also had 535 00:23:55,420 --> 00:23:52,310 to attack intelligent design showing 536 00:23:58,030 --> 00:23:55,430 number one that it was not science 537 00:23:59,860 --> 00:23:58,040 because it didn't follow the kind of 538 00:24:01,780 --> 00:23:59,870 basic ground rules of science which is 539 00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:01,790 you have to restrict yourself to natural 540 00:24:07,540 --> 00:24:05,360 causes yeah and secondly that you know 541 00:24:09,670 --> 00:24:07,550 even even if you argued about the 542 00:24:11,620 --> 00:24:09,680 demarcation of science and on science 543 00:24:14,550 --> 00:24:11,630 and I know it's philosophers of science 544 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:14,560 ruler out of that but even if you 545 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:17,330 accepted intelligent design as some kind 546 00:24:24,130 --> 00:24:21,650 of science its claims were wrong I mean 547 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:24,140 the things that says about irreducible 548 00:24:27,820 --> 00:24:25,730 complex to you or the bacterial 549 00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:27,830 flagellum the blood clotting system or 550 00:24:32,290 --> 00:24:29,510 any of these other examples the things 551 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:32,300 that it says about nature are just wrong 552 00:24:39,970 --> 00:24:36,170 so what possible pedagogical value would 553 00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:39,980 there be to teaching kids a science that 554 00:24:49,150 --> 00:24:45,110 was wrong number one and number two was 555 00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:49,160 arguably not science at all mmm so the 556 00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:53,510 policy failed on both points and I it 557 00:24:59,230 --> 00:24:56,240 was a wonderful experience to it and a 558 00:25:02,230 --> 00:24:59,240 real it was really exhausting i just 559 00:25:03,580 --> 00:25:02,240 didn't want the staff work so hard i 560 00:25:05,290 --> 00:25:03,590 better what do you happen to know 561 00:25:08,530 --> 00:25:05,300 whether there are audio recordings of 562 00:25:11,290 --> 00:25:08,540 the trial nope hmm only transcripts so 563 00:25:13,420 --> 00:25:11,300 well I think it's good a lot laughs so 564 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:13,430 you can get out you can yeah you can see 565 00:25:18,490 --> 00:25:16,330 you actually there would have been I 566 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:18,500 mean I don't know I don't know if that's 567 00:25:22,030 --> 00:25:20,450 normally not I don't know I know it did 568 00:25:24,610 --> 00:25:22,040 toys transcripts in the trial of course 569 00:25:27,870 --> 00:25:24,620 I don't think that there is a recording 570 00:25:30,820 --> 00:25:27,880 I think I think you only have the 571 00:25:33,769 --> 00:25:30,830 transfer hmm hmm that's interesting well 572 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:33,779 what man what's what's next Willy 573 00:25:40,580 --> 00:25:38,129 national cinema well this fall we 574 00:25:43,310 --> 00:25:40,590 anticipate when some of the state 575 00:25:48,289 --> 00:25:43,320 legislators come back into session that 576 00:25:51,259 --> 00:25:48,299 there is going to be a flurry of bills 577 00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:51,269 proposed variously around the country to 578 00:26:00,619 --> 00:25:56,700 promote a type of law called an academic 579 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:00,629 freedom act there's a boilerplate for 580 00:26:06,529 --> 00:26:04,129 this that's been being pushed by the 581 00:26:10,430 --> 00:26:06,539 Discovery Institute up in Seattle the 582 00:26:13,729 --> 00:26:10,440 intelligent design think tank and this 583 00:26:16,339 --> 00:26:13,739 these are very clever approaches the 584 00:26:19,009 --> 00:26:16,349 academic freedom act is basically 585 00:26:21,859 --> 00:26:19,019 permissive rather than requiring the 586 00:26:24,829 --> 00:26:21,869 teaching of X Y or Z yeah which means 587 00:26:28,909 --> 00:26:24,839 that it's a little harder to go after 588 00:26:30,919 --> 00:26:28,919 legally you kind of for most of these 589 00:26:34,489 --> 00:26:30,929 bills you kind of have to wait until it 590 00:26:35,989 --> 00:26:34,499 actually plays out in a classroom you 591 00:26:40,129 --> 00:26:35,999 have to wait until the teacher actually 592 00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:40,139 teaches the bad stuff and then you know 593 00:26:46,159 --> 00:26:43,679 find out about it see if you can get 594 00:26:50,570 --> 00:26:46,169 somebody with standing within that class 595 00:26:53,450 --> 00:26:50,580 to sue it's much much much harder to do 596 00:26:56,239 --> 00:26:53,460 what the lawyers call an as-applied case 597 00:26:58,909 --> 00:26:56,249 as opposed to making a facial challenge 598 00:27:01,700 --> 00:26:58,919 challenge on the face of the bill which 599 00:27:04,190 --> 00:27:01,710 is what we didn't over the Dover policy 600 00:27:05,989 --> 00:27:04,200 on its face was unconstitutional we made 601 00:27:07,579 --> 00:27:05,999 a facial challenge it would have been 602 00:27:10,190 --> 00:27:07,589 much much more difficult if we had to 603 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:10,200 have waited until a teacher applied that 604 00:27:14,659 --> 00:27:12,690 the policy in the classroom and that's 605 00:27:17,659 --> 00:27:14,669 what these academic freedom acts are 606 00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:17,669 going to devolve to us mmm so it's a 607 00:27:24,259 --> 00:27:19,679 much trickier legal strategy for them 608 00:27:30,349 --> 00:27:24,269 and then basically what these AFA bills 609 00:27:34,190 --> 00:27:30,359 are doing is allowing or encouraging 610 00:27:36,079 --> 00:27:34,200 teachers to not bring in intelligent 611 00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:36,089 design or not bring in traditional 612 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:40,289 creationism but to bring in the evidence 613 00:27:45,919 --> 00:27:41,850 against evolution if you 614 00:27:48,620 --> 00:27:45,929 to teach evolution but do a critical 615 00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:48,630 analysis of a year which sounds good 616 00:27:52,789 --> 00:27:50,640 which sounds great around unless you 617 00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:52,799 actually see what they mean by a 618 00:27:57,289 --> 00:27:54,809 critical analysis of evolution because 619 00:27:59,900 --> 00:27:57,299 they don't mean critical analysis in the 620 00:28:01,610 --> 00:27:59,910 sense that most of us especially those 621 00:28:03,980 --> 00:28:01,620 those of us from the sciences would use 622 00:28:06,169 --> 00:28:03,990 it to them a critical analysis of 623 00:28:09,250 --> 00:28:06,179 evolution is criticized evidence Raj 624 00:28:11,930 --> 00:28:09,260 it's an attack on evolution yes yes 625 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:11,940 similarly with strengths and weaknesses 626 00:28:16,220 --> 00:28:13,890 of evolution that's another phrase that 627 00:28:19,310 --> 00:28:16,230 you hear in this context and if you 628 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:19,320 actually ask for proponents well what 629 00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:21,210 exactly do you want us to teach because 630 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:23,760 I go to science magazine or I go to 631 00:28:28,850 --> 00:28:26,850 nature I go to bio science I go to any 632 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:28,860 of the other science journals and I see 633 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:30,330 lots of evolution I don't see any 634 00:28:34,370 --> 00:28:32,370 weaknesses of evolution and what exactly 635 00:28:37,310 --> 00:28:34,380 is a teacher is supposed to teach in a 636 00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:37,320 classroom and what you'll find is that 637 00:28:42,289 --> 00:28:38,880 they're recommending things like 638 00:28:44,210 --> 00:28:42,299 Jonathan Wells icons of evolution or a 639 00:28:46,970 --> 00:28:44,220 brand new book that the Discovery 640 00:28:51,919 --> 00:28:46,980 Institute came out with last year early 641 00:28:54,740 --> 00:28:51,929 this year called explore evolution which 642 00:28:56,930 --> 00:28:54,750 is intended to be a supplement to a 643 00:28:59,210 --> 00:28:56,940 regular high school biology textbook 644 00:29:00,320 --> 00:28:59,220 which actually has very little evolution 645 00:29:02,539 --> 00:29:00,330 and that most of them are pretty 646 00:29:04,100 --> 00:29:02,549 worthless frankly and then you have this 647 00:29:06,260 --> 00:29:04,110 whole book telling students why 648 00:29:09,230 --> 00:29:06,270 evolution is a lot of nonsense how 649 00:29:11,630 --> 00:29:09,240 evolution really is terribly bad sex but 650 00:29:13,850 --> 00:29:11,640 so these bills encourage the use of 651 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:13,860 those kinds of instruction as these 652 00:29:19,490 --> 00:29:17,730 books will will criticize evolution but 653 00:29:21,409 --> 00:29:19,500 they don't know proposing alternative 654 00:29:24,860 --> 00:29:21,419 they just how you evilution yes network 655 00:29:27,860 --> 00:29:24,870 doesn't work mmm because of course they 656 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:27,870 know that students tend to think 657 00:29:33,260 --> 00:29:30,570 dichotomously hmm either creation oh 658 00:29:35,630 --> 00:29:33,270 yeah yeah so if you disprove that prove 659 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:35,640 evolution for creationism is the only 660 00:29:40,669 --> 00:29:38,610 guy left saying yeah so you disprove 661 00:29:43,250 --> 00:29:40,679 evolution as a way to prove creation 662 00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:43,260 well and because the courts have said 663 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:45,809 you cannot teach creationism in the 664 00:29:49,210 --> 00:29:47,370 public schools because that's an 665 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:49,220 establishment of religion argument 666 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:51,650 they don't bother mentioning the c-word 667 00:29:56,409 --> 00:29:53,570 at all they just attack evolution it's 668 00:29:59,049 --> 00:29:56,419 it makes for a a much more difficult 669 00:30:00,640 --> 00:29:59,059 legal strategy for us to cope with well 670 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:00,650 I don't envy you but I'm glad you're out 671 00:30:10,660 --> 00:30:02,450 there doing it well thank you so much 672 00:30:16,340 --> 00:30:13,750 dr. Paul Willis is a paleontologist 673 00:30:18,380 --> 00:30:16,350 television science presenter here in 674 00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:18,390 Australia and a longtime friend of the 675 00:30:23,270 --> 00:30:20,910 skeptics we caught up with Paul earlier 676 00:30:25,580 --> 00:30:23,280 in the year during a skeptics meeting in 677 00:30:30,550 --> 00:30:25,590 the country town of Wagga Wagga here 678 00:30:33,050 --> 00:30:30,560 Paul talks to zone reporter Jason cook 679 00:30:34,670 --> 00:30:33,060 hi we're here with dr. Paul with us at 680 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:34,680 the Australian skeptics convention at 681 00:30:41,210 --> 00:30:38,250 wagah Paul is a paleontologist and 682 00:30:43,970 --> 00:30:41,220 science reporter Oh first up how did you 683 00:30:46,100 --> 00:30:43,980 begin working in science journalism and 684 00:30:48,110 --> 00:30:46,110 I got to the end of a PhD in 685 00:30:49,850 --> 00:30:48,120 paleontology and it came as a complete 686 00:30:51,380 --> 00:30:49,860 shock to me after nine years of study 687 00:30:52,490 --> 00:30:51,390 that no one actually wants to employ 688 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:52,500 someone just because they know a lot 689 00:30:58,430 --> 00:30:56,490 about dead crocodiles and i bummed 690 00:31:01,010 --> 00:30:58,440 around for a couple of years doing 691 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:01,020 freelance writing here and there not 692 00:31:06,290 --> 00:31:02,610 really making much of a go of it and 693 00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:06,300 then there was some adverts in New 694 00:31:13,180 --> 00:31:08,760 Scientist magazine for three positions 695 00:31:17,540 --> 00:31:13,190 at the ABC where I currently work as 696 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:17,550 science broadcast trainees and we were 697 00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:21,210 trained in radio television and online 698 00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:24,480 of the three years and i'm pleased to 699 00:31:31,490 --> 00:31:26,310 say all three of us are still there so 700 00:31:34,730 --> 00:31:31,500 we've stuck around prior to that while I 701 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:34,740 was completing my PhD my supervisor my 702 00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:37,050 culture was very strongly of the opinion 703 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:39,840 that while we were doing public science 704 00:31:44,690 --> 00:31:42,210 publicly funded science we had an 705 00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:44,700 obligation to communicate that back to 706 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:48,720 the general public and so we were always 707 00:31:53,150 --> 00:31:50,610 encouraged to do public lectures to 708 00:31:55,490 --> 00:31:53,160 Donna radio to write articles about the 709 00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:55,500 work that we were doing and that was a 710 00:31:59,950 --> 00:31:57,600 good preliminary for me to get into 711 00:32:02,570 --> 00:31:59,960 science journalism yeah definitely and 712 00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:02,580 have you ever had any confrontations 713 00:32:08,790 --> 00:32:05,760 with I guess young earth creation and is 714 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:08,800 intelligent design people yeah 715 00:32:16,170 --> 00:32:11,110 I've been arguing with them since I was 716 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:16,180 in primary school and there was it 717 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:20,170 culminated recently in a debate say 718 00:32:26,670 --> 00:32:24,610 recently 2003 I debated a creationist 719 00:32:30,330 --> 00:32:26,680 called Carl Whelan do was at that time 720 00:32:31,950 --> 00:32:30,340 head of the artists in Genesis how I 721 00:32:35,940 --> 00:32:31,960 don't know what their name is this week 722 00:32:38,970 --> 00:32:35,950 I seem to change Olivia lasers that was 723 00:32:40,620 --> 00:32:38,980 at an assembly of god church in Brisbane 724 00:32:42,780 --> 00:32:40,630 in the suburbs of brisbane one and a 725 00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:42,790 half thousand people I think I was 726 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:44,320 probably the only evolutions been the 727 00:32:51,570 --> 00:32:49,930 audience and I the thing annoyed me 728 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:51,580 about that debate is a couple of things 729 00:32:57,990 --> 00:32:55,690 one is I found out afterwards that prior 730 00:33:00,060 --> 00:32:58,000 to that debate for the preceding three 731 00:33:01,770 --> 00:33:00,070 weeks they've had someone from answers 732 00:33:03,630 --> 00:33:01,780 in genesis going on talking to our 733 00:33:06,170 --> 00:33:03,640 congregation about how to do with 734 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:06,180 evolutionists so they had set a trap 735 00:33:12,750 --> 00:33:11,410 bill differently I thought I'd couldn't 736 00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:12,760 acquit himself pretty well in that 737 00:33:18,450 --> 00:33:15,910 debate and most people who have got back 738 00:33:20,490 --> 00:33:18,460 to me and have seen that debate or the 739 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:20,500 DVD that came out about it think that I 740 00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:23,290 was pretty convincing and if the debate 741 00:33:27,540 --> 00:33:24,910 was awarded that they would have awarded 742 00:33:29,070 --> 00:33:27,550 it to me the recurring point I keep 743 00:33:31,470 --> 00:33:29,080 making and this is the point that 744 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:31,480 anybody talking to a creationist means 745 00:33:36,780 --> 00:33:34,570 to make don't give me what you think is 746 00:33:39,330 --> 00:33:36,790 evidence against evolution give me a 747 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:39,340 single piece of evidence that tells you 748 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:42,370 the creation is correct they can't do 749 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:44,770 that that I never will I challenge Cole 750 00:33:49,020 --> 00:33:46,930 numerous times for that debate with that 751 00:33:50,490 --> 00:33:49,030 exact line and he did not come up with a 752 00:33:55,020 --> 00:33:50,500 single piece of evidence that 753 00:33:57,900 --> 00:33:55,030 demonstrates creationism is correct the 754 00:34:00,060 --> 00:33:57,910 other thing that annoyed me is despite 755 00:34:03,330 --> 00:34:00,070 the fact that there was a written 756 00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:03,340 agreement of our proceeds and royalties 757 00:34:08,220 --> 00:34:05,440 in which I was supposed to get a check 758 00:34:12,150 --> 00:34:08,230 for sales I found out that they've been 759 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:12,160 peddling these insane them worldwide and 760 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:14,890 I have yet to see a red cent when I 761 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:16,570 mentioned it to them they made some poor 762 00:34:26,590 --> 00:34:20,330 tree offer the thing that 763 00:34:28,930 --> 00:34:26,600 me about that is that it's it gets to 764 00:34:30,850 --> 00:34:28,940 the heart of the way that creationists 765 00:34:33,130 --> 00:34:30,860 are allowed to operate within the 766 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:33,140 Christian community mmm because 767 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:35,690 Christians do not think that fellow 768 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:37,490 Christians are going to be telling them 769 00:34:44,770 --> 00:34:41,050 lies or a triumph of cheaper yeah and 770 00:34:47,350 --> 00:34:44,780 creationists tell lies and they cheat as 771 00:34:49,150 --> 00:34:47,360 though the mantra bleedin in my case and 772 00:34:50,890 --> 00:34:49,160 they get away with it because they 773 00:34:53,620 --> 00:34:50,900 they're Christians and fellow Christians 774 00:34:56,770 --> 00:34:53,630 don't suspect them I go in there I admit 775 00:34:59,740 --> 00:34:56,780 that I'm an atheist I'm openly skeptical 776 00:35:03,010 --> 00:34:59,750 on the anti-creationists therefore 777 00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:03,020 anything I say is tainted in their eyes 778 00:35:08,860 --> 00:35:07,250 and it's something if any of you get 779 00:35:12,730 --> 00:35:08,870 into a debate with creationist keep it 780 00:35:16,450 --> 00:35:12,740 in mind that that you know it's a lost 781 00:35:19,270 --> 00:35:16,460 cause anyway because we will never win 782 00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:19,280 the debate but if we don't debate them 783 00:35:25,540 --> 00:35:22,310 we will lose yeah so it's important that 784 00:35:27,220 --> 00:35:25,550 we are continuing to present ourselves 785 00:35:29,350 --> 00:35:27,230 present the arguments against 786 00:35:32,860 --> 00:35:29,360 creationism in public fora so that 787 00:35:34,990 --> 00:35:32,870 people can see that there is this other 788 00:35:37,690 --> 00:35:35,000 school of four called evolution and 789 00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:37,700 science and the creationism does not 790 00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:39,680 have a leg to stand on it doesn't have 791 00:35:43,540 --> 00:35:41,510 that evidence unless that we keep 792 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:43,550 putting that message up they will win 793 00:35:48,370 --> 00:35:45,050 because they're very good at marketing 794 00:35:49,870 --> 00:35:48,380 their nonsense extremely good hmm 795 00:35:51,730 --> 00:35:49,880 they've already got an audience of 796 00:35:57,870 --> 00:35:51,740 constant thing of an audience exactly 797 00:36:00,940 --> 00:35:57,880 yeah and because the university 798 00:36:03,940 --> 00:36:00,950 environment which is really the breeding 799 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:03,950 ground in many respects of of hardcore 800 00:36:08,350 --> 00:36:06,770 creationism because that's continually 801 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:08,360 getting a turnover at new students 802 00:36:15,010 --> 00:36:11,690 coming through each year every year is 803 00:36:17,830 --> 00:36:15,020 gang gang zero your back to to your 804 00:36:20,170 --> 00:36:17,840 starting blocks because that and they 805 00:36:21,580 --> 00:36:20,180 know this so each year they will you 806 00:36:23,860 --> 00:36:21,590 know they'll come out with some 807 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:23,870 creations will come and talk on campus 808 00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:26,810 and because they know they've got a new 809 00:36:31,250 --> 00:36:29,040 flock has talked and they can try 810 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:31,260 the same discredited arguments they can 811 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:33,930 bring out the same old bull nothing that 812 00:36:38,180 --> 00:36:36,050 I've heard from a creationist is new 813 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:38,190 every every argument i've heard 814 00:36:43,810 --> 00:36:41,010 prominent over before a dozen times many 815 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:43,820 of them go back into the 80s or beyond 816 00:36:48,140 --> 00:36:47,130 and you never hear anything new but they 817 00:36:49,940 --> 00:36:48,150 know they can get away with it because 818 00:36:51,950 --> 00:36:49,950 they continually provided with fresh 819 00:36:53,570 --> 00:36:51,960 audience yeah that's why we're going to 820 00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:53,580 be vigilant that's why we have to 821 00:37:00,290 --> 00:36:56,960 continue the good fight I like that good 822 00:37:03,470 --> 00:37:00,300 very good like ever experienced that 823 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:03,480 firsthand down a few times now they're 824 00:37:07,850 --> 00:37:05,010 constantly tearing they're constantly 825 00:37:09,710 --> 00:37:07,860 going to it seemed even a couple of 826 00:37:10,940 --> 00:37:09,720 years ago they were going to the 827 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:10,950 churches that weren't doing so well 828 00:37:14,210 --> 00:37:12,810 financially now as well as doing that 829 00:37:15,830 --> 00:37:14,220 they're hitting all the the new youth 830 00:37:17,590 --> 00:37:15,840 churches that are around the ones that 831 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:17,600 advertise with rock bands and guitars 832 00:37:21,140 --> 00:37:19,650 they're the ones that creation 833 00:37:23,870 --> 00:37:21,150 ministries international are constantly 834 00:37:27,020 --> 00:37:23,880 Toronto now mmm for that very reason 835 00:37:29,330 --> 00:37:27,030 they're all 17 18 before they before 836 00:37:32,570 --> 00:37:29,340 they even get to university hmm yeah 837 00:37:35,930 --> 00:37:32,580 let's go backed up there sure and you 838 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:35,940 know I think that if you do go into a 839 00:37:42,980 --> 00:37:40,170 public debate like I did don't expect to 840 00:37:45,470 --> 00:37:42,990 convert the whole audience don't expect 841 00:37:48,050 --> 00:37:45,480 to convert anyone because pretty much 842 00:37:52,220 --> 00:37:48,060 most of the audience who turn up are 843 00:37:55,030 --> 00:37:52,230 going to be creationists there's a weird 844 00:37:57,380 --> 00:37:55,040 phenomena even even in an environment 845 00:37:59,500 --> 00:37:57,390 and probably experiences yourself if 846 00:38:01,550 --> 00:37:59,510 creationist comes to talk on campus 847 00:38:04,130 --> 00:38:01,560 ninety percent of the audience will be 848 00:38:07,390 --> 00:38:04,140 the fundamentalist Christian groups 849 00:38:11,630 --> 00:38:07,400 turning up to listen yeah there will be 850 00:38:13,550 --> 00:38:11,640 a small group of people who understand 851 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:13,560 evolutionary theory and accept evolution 852 00:38:21,230 --> 00:38:17,970 of science and evolution but the reason 853 00:38:23,060 --> 00:38:21,240 why I debate is because somewhere in 854 00:38:25,730 --> 00:38:23,070 between there is a poured proportion of 855 00:38:28,010 --> 00:38:25,740 the audience who are swingers they 856 00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:28,020 actually don't really know one way or 857 00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:29,910 the other they've got no way of 858 00:38:34,490 --> 00:38:32,520 evaluating who's correct and those are 859 00:38:37,310 --> 00:38:34,500 the ones that you can actually reach 860 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:37,320 yeah in a debate like that and in that 861 00:38:42,670 --> 00:38:38,930 debate that I had 862 00:38:45,170 --> 00:38:42,680 the assembly of god in in queensland 863 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:45,180 afterwards I thought I'd done a good job 864 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:47,850 at the end when one woman came up to me 865 00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:49,890 and she said I want to say thank you to 866 00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:52,710 you I am a committed Christian but I'm 867 00:38:57,970 --> 00:38:55,680 also a high school science teacher and I 868 00:39:01,940 --> 00:38:57,980 know that what you're saying is correct 869 00:39:05,450 --> 00:39:01,950 and all too often at school I back down 870 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:05,460 and won't stand up against people 871 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:08,130 spouting creationism but you coming in 872 00:39:12,740 --> 00:39:10,410 here today and standing up in front of 873 00:39:15,370 --> 00:39:12,750 an audience full of Christians who were 874 00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:15,380 creationists and standing upland and 875 00:39:21,110 --> 00:39:18,510 defending what is logically the truth 876 00:39:23,540 --> 00:39:21,120 she said that was a powerful message to 877 00:39:26,590 --> 00:39:23,550 me and I'll go album and I want to do 878 00:39:28,850 --> 00:39:26,600 that in the future now that was one of 879 00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:28,860 1100 people who came up to me and said 880 00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:30,960 that there is only a small portion of 881 00:39:34,820 --> 00:39:32,880 the audience that you can sway but 882 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:34,830 they're worth talking to they're worth 883 00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:37,170 reaching out to persuade definitely yeah 884 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:39,510 one more person to perform well exactly 885 00:39:44,780 --> 00:39:43,770 exactly I don't think that the coming 886 00:39:48,620 --> 00:39:44,790 out of that debate there would have been 887 00:39:51,410 --> 00:39:48,630 anybody going to the creationist can for 888 00:39:53,180 --> 00:39:51,420 the first time yeah definitely and it's 889 00:39:56,690 --> 00:39:53,190 also I've always found it beneficial 890 00:39:58,700 --> 00:39:56,700 just to plant the seed of doubt that 891 00:40:00,320 --> 00:39:58,710 rather than just completely convinced 892 00:40:03,140 --> 00:40:00,330 someone I'll surely the override their 893 00:40:05,210 --> 00:40:03,150 dog but just maybe give them a little 894 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:05,220 bit of questioning of do ya something 895 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:06,810 that'll just take a look ever hanging up 896 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:09,450 well a common creationist tactic and the 897 00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:12,450 precious no this is this works that's 898 00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:14,400 why they use it that you know these guys 899 00:40:19,730 --> 00:40:16,710 are not stupid never make that mistake 900 00:40:23,270 --> 00:40:19,740 they're not stupid what they realize is 901 00:40:27,260 --> 00:40:23,280 they can make a claim and it takes you 902 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:27,270 as a scientist an eternity time to 903 00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:30,210 unpick that claim and so they'll just 904 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:32,640 throw out claims like you know I had 905 00:40:36,890 --> 00:40:34,890 Carl throwing things that mean like are 906 00:40:39,230 --> 00:40:36,900 sedimentary layers yes we've shown 907 00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:39,240 through flume experiments then you can 908 00:40:42,830 --> 00:40:41,280 lay them down simultaneously one on top 909 00:40:44,900 --> 00:40:42,840 of the other no problem and therefore 910 00:40:47,140 --> 00:40:44,910 all of that arguing about Scotty grafite 911 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:47,150 is completely wrong now for me 912 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:48,650 pack that argument I have to explain 913 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:51,170 what stratigraphy is I have to explain 914 00:40:56,350 --> 00:40:55,130 the de flume experiments are a set of 915 00:40:59,980 --> 00:40:56,360 experiments that were conducted in 916 00:41:01,390 --> 00:40:59,990 France have had some success in being 917 00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:01,400 repeated in other labs but complete 918 00:41:07,630 --> 00:41:04,730 failures in most and under a certain set 919 00:41:10,530 --> 00:41:07,640 of conditions you can create what appear 920 00:41:14,140 --> 00:41:10,540 to be layers in sedimentary rocks that 921 00:41:18,070 --> 00:41:14,150 appear to conforto but they do not in 922 00:41:20,590 --> 00:41:18,080 any way conform to the way that we see 923 00:41:23,020 --> 00:41:20,600 cementery rots having formed elsewhere 924 00:41:24,970 --> 00:41:23,030 in the world out there in the field so 925 00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:24,980 he that will throw something in there in 926 00:41:29,530 --> 00:41:26,960 a good comment it would take me an 927 00:41:32,140 --> 00:41:29,540 eternity to unpack it and he's gone on 928 00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:32,150 to the next two or three points yeah the 929 00:41:37,780 --> 00:41:34,640 way to undercut them is saying there is 930 00:41:40,090 --> 00:41:37,790 an argument against evolution it is not 931 00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:40,100 an argument that demonstrates 932 00:41:44,650 --> 00:41:42,800 creationism is correct give me that 933 00:41:46,030 --> 00:41:44,660 evidence and give me that evidence that 934 00:41:48,220 --> 00:41:46,040 shows that what you're saying is correct 935 00:41:51,490 --> 00:41:48,230 not that what I'm saying is wrong and 936 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:51,500 we'll take it from there I know that you 937 00:41:55,780 --> 00:41:53,330 don't if you keep bringing them back to 938 00:41:58,170 --> 00:41:55,790 that point then they've got nowhere to 939 00:42:09,140 --> 00:41:58,180 run because they have got no evidence ya 940 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:12,600 the skeptic zone zone voiceover man Jim 941 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:15,970 Wilshire has just released a DVD of 26 942 00:42:21,420 --> 00:42:19,330 original poems all read by Jim and some 943 00:42:27,359 --> 00:42:21,430 with beautiful images of the Australian 944 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:27,369 countryside here's an example bachelor 945 00:42:32,250 --> 00:42:30,010 of science you're a bachelor of science 946 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:32,260 so I guess that means you know how to 947 00:42:36,780 --> 00:42:34,450 constantly keep in touch with those who 948 00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:36,790 had to go and have a summon up their 949 00:42:42,660 --> 00:42:39,119 spirits if they're slightly willing and 950 00:42:45,570 --> 00:42:42,670 speak to the dead why that really is 951 00:42:48,660 --> 00:42:45,580 quite thrilling does this gift which you 952 00:42:50,970 --> 00:42:48,670 have mean you could talk to pets and do 953 00:42:53,310 --> 00:42:50,980 you do it via the ether or through the 954 00:42:56,670 --> 00:42:53,320 media admits could you get in contact 955 00:42:59,340 --> 00:42:56,680 say with my dear departed cat for having 956 00:43:02,550 --> 00:42:59,350 been once run over is that the end of 957 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:02,560 that and what about my dog do you think 958 00:43:07,140 --> 00:43:04,810 you'd hear him bark from that big doggie 959 00:43:09,630 --> 00:43:07,150 playground the dead dogs apart and park 960 00:43:11,940 --> 00:43:09,640 having made a connection could I be 961 00:43:14,730 --> 00:43:11,950 absolutely sure that the doggie were 962 00:43:16,830 --> 00:43:14,740 communing was the pet on timing for I'm 963 00:43:19,290 --> 00:43:16,840 worried about the chance of the wrong 964 00:43:21,780 --> 00:43:19,300 contact being made that you might get a 965 00:43:24,030 --> 00:43:21,790 canine with which I never played but 966 00:43:27,330 --> 00:43:24,040 someone else's pet which would Manson to 967 00:43:30,570 --> 00:43:27,340 my call or perish the thought you'd get 968 00:43:33,390 --> 00:43:30,580 no dead dog Sol at all now I might just 969 00:43:36,300 --> 00:43:33,400 have to wait until I joined by passed on 970 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:36,310 pets it seems you might be trying to lay 971 00:43:41,700 --> 00:43:39,130 off my psychic bits and those for my 972 00:43:45,390 --> 00:43:41,710 parents where although you have that 973 00:43:51,060 --> 00:43:45,400 ticket I think the school was falling so 974 00:43:54,210 --> 00:43:51,070 you know where you can stick it that was 975 00:43:56,580 --> 00:43:54,220 Jim Wilshire reading his poem bachelor 976 00:43:59,130 --> 00:43:56,590 of science as featured on the new DVD 977 00:44:02,340 --> 00:43:59,140 and the rhyme keeper you can buy your 978 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:02,350 copy of the Rhine keeper $25 us posted 979 00:44:10,349 --> 00:44:07,170 to your door by visiting w WC optics on 980 00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:10,359 TV you can also see Jim reading another 981 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:13,510 poem by visiting our video page Jim 982 00:44:29,430 --> 00:44:27,540 well recently I had the pleasure of 983 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:29,440 going to enquiry University here in 984 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:31,570 Sydney to give a talk to the very new 985 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:33,610 Macquarie skeptics and on the line I've 986 00:44:38,310 --> 00:44:35,530 got Tiffany day from the Macquarie 987 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:38,320 skeptics hello Tiffany hello riches now 988 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:40,330 I'm very interested to know and I'm sure 989 00:44:43,740 --> 00:44:41,770 listen is a very interest is know a bit 990 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:43,750 about the background why is there now 991 00:44:47,910 --> 00:44:45,970 after all these years of skepticism in 992 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:47,920 Australia something coming up to 30 why 993 00:44:53,490 --> 00:44:50,170 is there now a skeptics group at 994 00:44:55,230 --> 00:44:53,500 Macquarie University yes well I think a 995 00:44:58,080 --> 00:44:55,240 lot of the most of motivation behind it 996 00:44:59,850 --> 00:44:58,090 was the fact that at Macquarie 997 00:45:04,770 --> 00:44:59,860 University in particular there are a 998 00:45:07,860 --> 00:45:04,780 whole lot of religious student groups 13 999 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:07,870 we counted i believe and nothing for any 1000 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:10,810 sort of critical thinking group such as 1001 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:12,370 a skeptic group of perhaps even an 1002 00:45:18,270 --> 00:45:15,370 atheist group so we wanted to make that 1003 00:45:19,950 --> 00:45:18,280 available to students not necessarily as 1004 00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:19,960 a counteraction to the religious groups 1005 00:45:26,850 --> 00:45:22,240 but just as something for them to get 1006 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:26,860 involved with so 13 13 also religious 1007 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:28,570 groups on the campus they're mcrae that 1008 00:45:32,340 --> 00:45:30,370 so what are they different religions or 1009 00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:32,350 they all sort of Christian sects or how 1010 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:35,680 does it work I do know of a few Islamic 1011 00:45:41,580 --> 00:45:37,690 ones but I think the majority are 1012 00:45:45,210 --> 00:45:41,590 Christian and they certainly take over a 1013 00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:45,220 lot of the poster space ah now you've 1014 00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:46,480 got a story to tell about that because 1015 00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:48,730 you were telling me something about when 1016 00:45:53,310 --> 00:45:51,760 you were promoting my recent talk yes do 1017 00:45:54,990 --> 00:45:53,320 you have a story we had the great 1018 00:46:00,300 --> 00:45:55,000 Richard Saunders coming into a tour bus 1019 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:00,310 and and myself being holding the 1020 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:01,930 marketing chair for the group I was 1021 00:46:06,750 --> 00:46:03,850 responsible for whole arm putting up the 1022 00:46:09,170 --> 00:46:06,760 posters to create awareness for the 1023 00:46:12,540 --> 00:46:09,180 group and also to promote your talk and 1024 00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:12,550 the Christian groups at our university 1025 00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:14,710 decided it would be a good idea to stick 1026 00:46:18,990 --> 00:46:17,200 their posters right over the top of my 1027 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:19,000 posters that I'd only had out for about 1028 00:46:23,790 --> 00:46:22,210 five minutes Oh Deary Deary me being 1029 00:46:26,220 --> 00:46:23,800 censured by the Christian groups of the 1030 00:46:30,570 --> 00:46:26,230 University whatever next it was quite 1031 00:46:32,310 --> 00:46:30,580 deliberate as well oh boy I wouldn't I'm 1032 00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:32,320 not sure what the problem is it's a pity 1033 00:46:35,250 --> 00:46:34,000 they didn't come along for the talk they 1034 00:46:36,660 --> 00:46:35,260 would have all learned how to bend 1035 00:46:38,220 --> 00:46:36,670 spoons yes 1036 00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:38,230 I mean we're quite welcoming to 1037 00:46:42,660 --> 00:46:41,200 religious any kind of religious people 1038 00:46:46,020 --> 00:46:42,670 and it kind of religious beliefs they're 1039 00:46:48,510 --> 00:46:46,030 welcome to come join our skeptic group 1040 00:46:50,460 --> 00:46:48,520 well that's absolutely the best attitude 1041 00:46:52,589 --> 00:46:50,470 to have and of course any person from 1042 00:46:55,289 --> 00:46:52,599 any religious group is quite welcome to 1043 00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:55,299 join the the Australian skeptics or come 1044 00:46:59,010 --> 00:46:57,130 to skeptics in the pub if their religion 1045 00:47:00,750 --> 00:46:59,020 doesn't forbid it of course we don't 1046 00:47:03,539 --> 00:47:00,760 care we will have anybody for a drink 1047 00:47:04,859 --> 00:47:03,549 and a chat and a good time and I see 1048 00:47:07,260 --> 00:47:04,869 that's your philosophy too because 1049 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:07,270 you're starting your very own skeptics 1050 00:47:11,940 --> 00:47:09,970 in the pub at Macquarie University yes 1051 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:11,950 that's that's very much our philosophy 1052 00:47:18,089 --> 00:47:14,170 and people who may be fed up with 1053 00:47:19,710 --> 00:47:18,099 astrology creationism water dowsing I 1054 00:47:21,690 --> 00:47:19,720 know you've put a DVD together about 1055 00:47:24,809 --> 00:47:21,700 that which was one of our events that we 1056 00:47:27,990 --> 00:47:24,819 held earlier in the semester evangelist 1057 00:47:30,270 --> 00:47:28,000 psychics all that sort of thing so to a 1058 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:30,280 degree it would include perhaps 1059 00:47:36,690 --> 00:47:34,210 fundamentalist religious ideas but we're 1060 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:36,700 totally welcoming to anyone I think 1061 00:47:40,559 --> 00:47:38,410 that's a great attitude to have now if 1062 00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:40,569 people want to contact you or people 1063 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:42,250 listening to us who attend Macquarie 1064 00:47:47,849 --> 00:47:44,530 University want to come along or join 1065 00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:47,859 your new group how can they do that yes 1066 00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:50,160 and they can either contact myself a 1067 00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:52,960 gentleman by the name of Duane or even 1068 00:48:00,270 --> 00:47:56,650 Johan we have a website called Macquarie 1069 00:48:03,059 --> 00:48:00,280 skeptics com and we're also quite active 1070 00:48:05,099 --> 00:48:03,069 on our facebook group so if you do a 1071 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:05,109 search on Facebook for skeptics at 1072 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:08,650 Macquarie at being the @ symbol on the 1073 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:11,410 keyboard we have regular updates and 1074 00:48:17,730 --> 00:48:13,290 information there on upcoming events and 1075 00:48:18,930 --> 00:48:17,740 also contact information great news and 1076 00:48:20,579 --> 00:48:18,940 of course you have the support of 1077 00:48:22,020 --> 00:48:20,589 Australian skeptics who are delighted 1078 00:48:23,910 --> 00:48:22,030 that there's a new skeptical group 1079 00:48:26,970 --> 00:48:23,920 especially in the University and we 1080 00:48:28,799 --> 00:48:26,980 certainly encourage a lot more in Sydney 1081 00:48:30,780 --> 00:48:28,809 and all over Australia so Tiffany day 1082 00:48:32,579 --> 00:48:30,790 thank you very much for chatting to the 1083 00:48:36,799 --> 00:48:32,589 skeptic zone thank you for having me 1084 00:48:45,779 --> 00:48:40,170 now it's time for dr. Rachel reports 1085 00:48:48,299 --> 00:48:45,789 with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello everyone 1086 00:48:49,729 --> 00:48:48,309 and welcome to dr. Richie reports today 1087 00:48:52,410 --> 00:48:49,739 I want to talk to you about the 1088 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:52,420 mind-body-spirit festival this happens 1089 00:48:55,650 --> 00:48:53,890 every six months in Sydney and is 1090 00:48:58,259 --> 00:48:55,660 affectionately known as the mind-body 1091 00:49:00,029 --> 00:48:58,269 wallet so take a deep breath check your 1092 00:49:02,039 --> 00:49:00,039 temper and let's delve into what they 1093 00:49:04,469 --> 00:49:02,049 have in store for us this time round as 1094 00:49:05,759 --> 00:49:04,479 I said it happens every six months in 1095 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:05,769 Sydney and the description on the 1096 00:49:09,900 --> 00:49:08,410 website is as follows Australia's 1097 00:49:12,410 --> 00:49:09,910 largest event for personal growth 1098 00:49:14,999 --> 00:49:12,420 natural therapies alternative healing 1099 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:15,009 self-development spiritual awareness and 1100 00:49:20,069 --> 00:49:17,890 much more you can see try and buy 1101 00:49:22,439 --> 00:49:20,079 hundreds of products and services for 1102 00:49:25,319 --> 00:49:22,449 your total well-being physical mental 1103 00:49:28,109 --> 00:49:25,329 and spiritual so this is a weave 1104 00:49:30,329 --> 00:49:28,119 festival on a huge scale with over 190 1105 00:49:33,059 --> 00:49:30,339 exhibitors a spiritual cinema free 1106 00:49:34,949 --> 00:49:33,069 seminars free performance stage free 1107 00:49:36,569 --> 00:49:34,959 positive thinking and meditation centres 1108 00:49:37,739 --> 00:49:36,579 and of course it wouldn't be the same 1109 00:49:40,859 --> 00:49:37,749 without the psychics and clairvoyants 1110 00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:40,869 and accordingly there is a psychic 1111 00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:43,119 reading room with over 60 of the best 1112 00:49:48,329 --> 00:49:45,609 clairvoyants who will sting you 40 bucks 1113 00:49:50,549 --> 00:49:48,339 for a 25 minute reading or 80 for 50 1114 00:49:53,069 --> 00:49:50,559 minutes and this room is always packed 1115 00:49:54,930 --> 00:49:53,079 so you are advised to book ahead we went 1116 00:49:56,999 --> 00:49:54,940 back in May and this room was constantly 1117 00:49:58,890 --> 00:49:57,009 buzzing this year there are several 1118 00:50:01,289 --> 00:49:58,900 seminars from the psychics featured on 1119 00:50:03,809 --> 00:50:01,299 the one Australia's search for the most 1120 00:50:05,069 --> 00:50:03,819 gifted psychic but before I delve into 1121 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:05,079 that I want to bring to your attention 1122 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:06,729 some of the more weird and wonderful 1123 00:50:13,289 --> 00:50:10,410 exhibitors so let's start with weird 1124 00:50:15,329 --> 00:50:13,299 nose works now nose works our suppliers 1125 00:50:17,729 --> 00:50:15,339 of a product known as the the neti pot 1126 00:50:20,759 --> 00:50:17,739 which is also known as a nasal cleansing 1127 00:50:22,949 --> 00:50:20,769 pot or yah leonetti and this thing looks 1128 00:50:24,930 --> 00:50:22,959 like a teapot with an inverted spout and 1129 00:50:27,089 --> 00:50:24,940 according to the instructional video on 1130 00:50:29,009 --> 00:50:27,099 the website you fill it with warm salty 1131 00:50:32,189 --> 00:50:29,019 water and then flush your sinuses by 1132 00:50:35,549 --> 00:50:32,199 pouring it up your nose now one of the 1133 00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:35,559 websites I visited cited this process as 1134 00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:38,170 a simple solution to asthma sinusitis 1135 00:50:45,150 --> 00:50:41,890 snoring hay fever blocked noses sneezing 1136 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:45,160 sinus headaches and even better it has a 1137 00:50:48,809 --> 00:50:46,930 cooling and soothing effect on the brain 1138 00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:48,819 and is therefore beneficial for 1139 00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:49,570 headaches my 1140 00:50:54,540 --> 00:50:52,570 green and general mental tension well I 1141 00:50:57,450 --> 00:50:54,550 wonder how does it get to your brain if 1142 00:51:00,540 --> 00:50:57,460 you pour it up your nose in any case 1143 00:51:02,430 --> 00:51:00,550 they also claim that regular cleansing 1144 00:51:05,130 --> 00:51:02,440 helps the eyes ears and minds become 1145 00:51:07,260 --> 00:51:05,140 clearer as well as it helps clear the 1146 00:51:10,310 --> 00:51:07,270 mind giving you a sense of lightness and 1147 00:51:12,990 --> 00:51:10,320 clarity which aids better concentration 1148 00:51:15,450 --> 00:51:13,000 so go ahead and shove this thing up your 1149 00:51:17,700 --> 00:51:15,460 nose if you wish I know who one thing it 1150 00:51:19,830 --> 00:51:17,710 will most certainly look silly but as 1151 00:51:21,750 --> 00:51:19,840 for the rest of the claims well dubious 1152 00:51:23,250 --> 00:51:21,760 to say the least and the part about 1153 00:51:25,860 --> 00:51:23,260 clearing your mind and cooling your 1154 00:51:27,510 --> 00:51:25,870 brain well there's no basis in science 1155 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:27,520 for this if you want to see some 1156 00:51:32,190 --> 00:51:29,770 pictures of how you use this wonderful 1157 00:51:33,690 --> 00:51:32,200 neti pot check my blog and you can see 1158 00:51:37,020 --> 00:51:33,700 some of the amusing pictures of this 1159 00:51:38,850 --> 00:51:37,030 process in action but wait listeners why 1160 00:51:41,340 --> 00:51:38,860 listen to me apparently this thing has 1161 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:41,350 featured on oprah but then so has Tom 1162 00:51:49,020 --> 00:51:46,570 Cruise and Jenny McCarthy more weird now 1163 00:51:50,430 --> 00:51:49,030 a couple of stalls that are going to be 1164 00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:50,440 appearing at the mind-body wallet 1165 00:51:56,610 --> 00:51:54,370 include Nana maze magic hands and teacup 1166 00:51:58,320 --> 00:51:56,620 readings with Betty now doesn't this 1167 00:52:00,750 --> 00:51:58,330 sound like a lovely old lady straight 1168 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:00,760 out of the 1950s who wants to make you a 1169 00:52:05,220 --> 00:52:03,970 nice cup of tea and read your leaves now 1170 00:52:08,100 --> 00:52:05,230 I thought this stuff went out of fashion 1171 00:52:11,010 --> 00:52:08,110 years ago I mean hasn't Betty heard of 1172 00:52:12,510 --> 00:52:11,020 the coffee Oracle by Stacy DeMarco check 1173 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:12,520 the link on my website if you want to 1174 00:52:17,340 --> 00:52:14,890 know more about this apparently we've 1175 00:52:20,430 --> 00:52:17,350 got expresso now my dear we don't use T 1176 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:20,440 anymore and as for Nana Mays magic hands 1177 00:52:25,050 --> 00:52:22,090 well I've got no idea what this is about 1178 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:25,060 but I'll be certain to check it out the 1179 00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:26,290 next thing I want to talk to you about 1180 00:52:31,230 --> 00:52:29,200 is just wrong and all across the 1181 00:52:32,910 --> 00:52:31,240 festival this year there are stalls and 1182 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:32,920 seminars espousing the benefits of 1183 00:52:38,310 --> 00:52:35,770 drinking alkaline water one is entitled 1184 00:52:40,350 --> 00:52:38,320 how water can cure incurable diseases 1185 00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:40,360 and this to me sounded pretty amazing 1186 00:52:43,980 --> 00:52:42,160 but when I did some further digging I 1187 00:52:47,310 --> 00:52:43,990 found out it was just alkaline water 1188 00:52:49,350 --> 00:52:47,320 again and another one is entitled food 1189 00:52:51,540 --> 00:52:49,360 intolerance as digestive enzymes and 1190 00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:51,550 alkalization which apparently will 1191 00:52:56,150 --> 00:52:53,770 report on to new digestive enzymes that 1192 00:52:58,620 --> 00:52:56,160 will greatly boost your digestive power 1193 00:53:01,290 --> 00:52:58,630 digestive power this sounds like a 1194 00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:01,300 washing powder to me but proponents of 1195 00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:03,520 this stuff claim and I quote 1196 00:53:07,260 --> 00:53:05,440 the negative ions in alkaline water are 1197 00:53:09,350 --> 00:53:07,270 a rich source of electrons that can be 1198 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:09,360 donated to free radicals in the body 1199 00:53:14,010 --> 00:53:11,290 neutralizing them and stopping them from 1200 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:14,020 damaging healthy tissues absolute 1201 00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:16,330 nonsense when you drink alkaline water 1202 00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:18,730 its alkalinity is quickly removed by the 1203 00:53:23,970 --> 00:53:20,890 highly acidic gastric fluid in your 1204 00:53:25,860 --> 00:53:23,980 stomach and the body regulates its pH by 1205 00:53:28,770 --> 00:53:25,870 buffering with bicarbonate ions and 1206 00:53:30,540 --> 00:53:28,780 breeding of carbon dioxide so I'm sorry 1207 00:53:33,330 --> 00:53:30,550 but this is just pure pseudoscience 1208 00:53:35,820 --> 00:53:33,340 nonsense so let's move on to 1209 00:53:37,290 --> 00:53:35,830 supernatural and of course it wouldn't 1210 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:37,300 be the mind-body wallet without the 1211 00:53:41,070 --> 00:53:39,490 usual collection of psychics and this 1212 00:53:44,030 --> 00:53:41,080 year there isn't contingent from the one 1213 00:53:46,620 --> 00:53:44,040 as i mentioned giving seminars such as 1214 00:53:49,860 --> 00:53:46,630 connecting with spirit messages from 1215 00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:49,870 beyond and you too can be the one how to 1216 00:53:53,940 --> 00:53:52,330 develop your own psychic gifts now these 1217 00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:53,950 sound decidedly normal stacked up 1218 00:53:58,560 --> 00:53:56,170 against things like sonic rebirthing 1219 00:54:01,200 --> 00:53:58,570 through sound therapy the Atlantean 1220 00:54:04,470 --> 00:54:01,210 pathway to Isis and psychic spoon 1221 00:54:06,270 --> 00:54:04,480 bending and Egyptian alchemy well folks 1222 00:54:08,490 --> 00:54:06,280 this is just the beginning of 40 days of 1223 00:54:10,770 --> 00:54:08,500 the strange the supernatural and pretty 1224 00:54:13,130 --> 00:54:10,780 much the silly but combined with the 1225 00:54:15,230 --> 00:54:13,140 usual suspects such as the iridology 1226 00:54:17,700 --> 00:54:15,240 chiropractors chinese medicine 1227 00:54:20,490 --> 00:54:17,710 reflexologists aura capturers angels 1228 00:54:23,250 --> 00:54:20,500 orbs ear candles etc we are certainly in 1229 00:54:24,630 --> 00:54:23,260 for an interesting experience and you 1230 00:54:26,580 --> 00:54:24,640 can find all the details about this 1231 00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:26,590 episode of dr. Richie reports on the 1232 00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:29,920 skeptic design TV blog at skeptic zone 1233 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:32,050 dot wordpress or follow the links from 1234 00:54:36,270 --> 00:54:34,690 skeptic zone TV and i also have an 1235 00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:36,280 additional blog about the mind-body 1236 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:39,610 wallet at skeptics book calm and i want 1237 00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:41,410 to thank everyone who's been emailing me 1238 00:54:45,150 --> 00:54:43,330 with suggestions and feedback and please 1239 00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:45,160 keep doing that and i will try to get on 1240 00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:46,480 to some of your suggestions in the 1241 00:54:51,390 --> 00:54:49,090 coming episodes of the skeptic zone but 1242 00:55:01,550 --> 00:54:51,400 for now this has been dr. richie reports 1243 00:55:06,180 --> 00:55:03,840 Australian skeptics are pleased and 1244 00:55:08,510 --> 00:55:06,190 proud to sponsor the young scientists of 1245 00:55:11,130 --> 00:55:08,520 the Year award here in New South Wales 1246 00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:11,140 this year it was my pleasure to attend 1247 00:55:16,530 --> 00:55:13,690 the awards again and I met up with Sam 1248 00:55:19,170 --> 00:55:16,540 Whiteman Sam is from Mullen BB high 1249 00:55:20,940 --> 00:55:19,180 school my old high school sounded very 1250 00:55:22,770 --> 00:55:20,950 well this year winning first place in 1251 00:55:25,770 --> 00:55:22,780 the earth and environmental science 1252 00:55:28,590 --> 00:55:25,780 winning the step environment award 1253 00:55:30,510 --> 00:55:28,600 winning the Royal Australian chemical 1254 00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:30,520 institute award for soil and water 1255 00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:33,490 chemistry and he will be representing 1256 00:55:38,220 --> 00:55:35,920 Australia at the 2009 Intel 1257 00:55:43,530 --> 00:55:38,230 International Science and Engineering 1258 00:55:47,700 --> 00:55:43,540 Fair in Reno Nevada wow I spoke to sam 1259 00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:47,710 just after the award ceremony well we 1260 00:55:50,730 --> 00:55:49,330 here at the young scientists of the Year 1261 00:55:53,430 --> 00:55:50,740 award for New South Wales understand 1262 00:55:56,100 --> 00:55:53,440 white went from Mullen BB high school my 1263 00:55:58,140 --> 00:55:56,110 old high school Sam hi hey origin I'm 1264 00:56:01,500 --> 00:55:58,150 doing well and I'm really happy because 1265 00:56:03,750 --> 00:56:01,510 you did so well today yeah I did I did 1266 00:56:04,830 --> 00:56:03,760 myself really you really did how many 1267 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:04,840 times did you come up and click the 1268 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:06,370 wards I think at least about four or 1269 00:56:10,290 --> 00:56:07,930 five or something like that uncountable 1270 00:56:12,510 --> 00:56:10,300 countable he was up and down like a 1271 00:56:14,580 --> 00:56:12,520 yo-yo folks and he's off to the states 1272 00:56:16,290 --> 00:56:14,590 that is so exciting is one of the the 1273 00:56:17,700 --> 00:56:16,300 big winners if I'm very very excited 1274 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:17,710 like I can't wait to go to the States 1275 00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:20,530 I've heard it's really nice it's it's 1276 00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:21,910 amazing you're gonna have such a good 1277 00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:23,170 time and all you people listening in 1278 00:56:27,210 --> 00:56:25,090 America when Sam comes your way now 1279 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:27,220 you're going to reno I theory night yeah 1280 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:29,530 that's where than in 2009 where the 1281 00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:32,410 young sign is the convention is or a 1282 00:56:38,130 --> 00:56:35,170 meeting yeah I think so I can't like a 1283 00:56:39,690 --> 00:56:38,140 decent spoon bending yes ladies and 1284 00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:39,700 gentlemen I must tell you that last year 1285 00:56:44,070 --> 00:56:42,610 Sam was the young scientists awards and 1286 00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:44,080 I showed him a little bit of spoon 1287 00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:45,850 betting he's become a bit famous up 1288 00:56:49,890 --> 00:56:47,410 there a Malon baby yeah you could say 1289 00:56:52,650 --> 00:56:49,900 that in the local paper with a spoon 1290 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:52,660 bending so not only a young scientist 1291 00:56:56,220 --> 00:56:54,010 for the young budding a skeptic I think 1292 00:56:56,940 --> 00:56:56,230 Sam congratulations again thank you very 1293 00:56:58,530 --> 00:56:56,950 much mission 1294 00:57:00,450 --> 00:56:58,540 and I do I look forward to you and 1295 00:57:07,020 --> 00:57:00,460 seeing you here again and again oh okay 1296 00:57:14,450 --> 00:57:07,030 I will now see you join us now for 1297 00:57:19,530 --> 00:57:17,490 and welcome once again to the think tank 1298 00:57:22,790 --> 00:57:19,540 actually we're not at a club this week 1299 00:57:25,620 --> 00:57:22,800 we're at Rachel Dunlop's house with an 1300 00:57:28,589 --> 00:57:25,630 incredible view of Sydney Airport Rachel 1301 00:57:31,109 --> 00:57:28,599 it's amazing my plane spotting room 1302 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:31,119 Ricardo I love it that's a great room 1303 00:57:34,410 --> 00:57:33,250 isn't it you can see from the city the 1304 00:57:36,540 --> 00:57:34,420 Harbour Bridge all the way down to 1305 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:36,550 Botany Bay which is where the Kingsford 1306 00:57:41,069 --> 00:57:38,650 Smith airport is and right at this 1307 00:57:43,790 --> 00:57:41,079 moment we can see the line of the runway 1308 00:57:46,290 --> 00:57:43,800 that's lit up yep and we can sew it 1309 00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:46,300 through the course of this podcast you 1310 00:57:49,829 --> 00:57:48,010 might hear some planes going past 1311 00:57:50,940 --> 00:57:49,839 although they're taking off over the 1312 00:57:54,150 --> 00:57:50,950 ocean at the moment is that right i 1313 00:57:55,319 --> 00:57:54,160 think so some of them are taking off in 1314 00:57:58,260 --> 00:57:55,329 hysterics that one's just put its 1315 00:58:02,220 --> 00:57:58,270 headlights on you see that yeah where's 1316 00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:02,230 that oh yes so if so bro if we get 747 1317 00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:04,930 you're any kind of large Airbus you 1318 00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:09,130 won't hear a thing joining me of course 1319 00:58:13,559 --> 00:58:11,050 is a doctor Rachel Dunlop because it's a 1320 00:58:17,220 --> 00:58:13,569 house it's and Amanda Rose hello Amanda 1321 00:58:18,690 --> 00:58:17,230 hello and we're actually waiting Michael 1322 00:58:21,180 --> 00:58:18,700 walla hende come join us this week but 1323 00:58:23,819 --> 00:58:21,190 we are waiting for Kylie Sturgis who is 1324 00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:23,829 in Perth and she's going to be joining 1325 00:58:28,370 --> 00:58:27,130 us via Skype as soon as she gets through 1326 00:58:32,430 --> 00:58:28,380 the traffic gets through the traffic 1327 00:58:34,500 --> 00:58:32,440 tourist track it's yes it is no time 1328 00:58:37,410 --> 00:58:34,510 it's pretty bad but what an interesting 1329 00:58:39,690 --> 00:58:37,420 couple of days it's been my friends yeah 1330 00:58:43,020 --> 00:58:39,700 it's been an interesting day we are 1331 00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:43,030 recording this a few hours after the 1332 00:58:49,260 --> 00:58:46,000 tremendous victory by barack obama obama 1333 00:58:51,809 --> 00:58:49,270 and Amanda and I were actually spent a 1334 00:58:54,420 --> 00:58:51,819 delightful afternoon in local pub 1335 00:58:56,190 --> 00:58:54,430 watching the results come in and I'll 1336 00:59:00,530 --> 00:58:56,200 just play this little clip now of the 1337 00:59:03,270 --> 00:59:00,540 very moment here we go this is a 1338 00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:03,280 people have been waiting for this is a 1339 00:59:20,930 --> 00:59:06,010 moment that potentially could be rather 1340 00:59:32,460 --> 00:59:24,980 he has enough electoral votes more than 1341 00:59:34,349 --> 00:59:32,470 270 the United States so there you go 1342 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:34,359 history has it happened to Amanda 1343 00:59:41,010 --> 00:59:37,210 actually what it was was the exact 1344 00:59:42,930 --> 00:59:41,020 second that the West Coast states closed 1345 00:59:45,180 --> 00:59:42,940 their polling california and new york 1346 00:59:47,630 --> 00:59:45,190 state's and at that moment they just 1347 00:59:50,550 --> 00:59:47,640 went that's it CNN called it then 1348 00:59:54,390 --> 00:59:50,560 presumptive president barack hussein 1349 00:59:56,300 --> 00:59:54,400 obama as congratulations president-elect 1350 00:59:59,640 --> 00:59:56,310 I know you listen to the skeptic zone I 1351 01:00:02,160 --> 00:59:59,650 wonder if our American friends realize 1352 01:00:03,839 --> 01:00:02,170 how much the rest of the world was 1353 01:00:05,820 --> 01:00:03,849 really interested in selection and this 1354 01:00:07,710 --> 01:00:05,830 result I mean in Australia currently 1355 01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:07,720 right now it's about half past eight at 1356 01:00:12,030 --> 01:00:10,570 night and there are lots and lots of 1357 01:00:14,310 --> 01:00:12,040 election parties going on around the 1358 01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:14,320 country and not just from xpat Americans 1359 01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:17,050 either well it's it's a big it's a big 1360 01:00:22,650 --> 01:00:19,810 event for the world I think so so that's 1361 01:00:25,380 --> 01:00:22,660 a big day in history to positive 1362 01:00:26,940 --> 01:00:25,390 positive I think so very positive and I 1363 01:00:28,950 --> 01:00:26,950 know John McCain always has since to the 1364 01:00:30,990 --> 01:00:28,960 skeptics and so commiserations John and 1365 01:00:32,700 --> 01:00:31,000 I'm sorry Sarah didn't win I'd I know 1366 01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:32,710 she listens to the skeptic she knows yes 1367 01:00:35,790 --> 01:00:34,330 although she's gone back probably gone 1368 01:00:38,070 --> 01:00:35,800 back to Alaska now to take care of those 1369 01:00:39,780 --> 01:00:38,080 pesky Russians hasn't she actually can I 1370 01:00:41,820 --> 01:00:39,790 tell you something rich in about part of 1371 01:00:44,790 --> 01:00:41,830 the reason why obama won use your shift 1372 01:00:47,700 --> 01:00:44,800 it was based on things shall we did you 1373 01:00:50,089 --> 01:00:47,710 know that i did not know that well this 1374 01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:50,099 is true in fact this story comes from 1375 01:00:56,250 --> 01:00:53,290 Associated Press you and i found a link 1376 01:00:58,020 --> 01:00:56,260 to this on youtube in fact and it's 1377 01:01:00,390 --> 01:00:58,030 talking about the sanctuary of the 1378 01:01:03,780 --> 01:01:00,400 office of John McCain and Barack Obama 1379 01:01:07,220 --> 01:01:03,790 and making predictions about who would 1380 01:01:10,410 --> 01:01:07,230 win based on the layout of their office 1381 01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:10,420 now this feng shui expert her name is 1382 01:01:16,140 --> 01:01:13,450 taylor Vance and she said that McCain's 1383 01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:16,150 office is eclectic and cluttered whereas 1384 01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:18,530 Obama's was clean and modern 1385 01:01:23,570 --> 01:01:20,730 now for those of you who don't know the 1386 01:01:26,390 --> 01:01:23,580 concept of feng shui it's this is the 1387 01:01:28,070 --> 01:01:26,400 quote from Taylor Vance it's the study 1388 01:01:30,010 --> 01:01:28,080 of our environments that affect the 1389 01:01:32,510 --> 01:01:30,020 events that happen in our lives and 1390 01:01:33,770 --> 01:01:32,520 mysterious connections between these two 1391 01:01:37,010 --> 01:01:33,780 things that seem to be totally 1392 01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:37,020 unconnected but they are happy in any 1393 01:01:42,530 --> 01:01:39,690 case she said that uh Charlie's she's an 1394 01:01:44,599 --> 01:01:42,540 expert oh I'm sorry Mia in any case she 1395 01:01:46,730 --> 01:01:44,609 said that Obama's office was very 1396 01:01:49,790 --> 01:01:46,740 accessible what you see is what you get 1397 01:01:53,180 --> 01:01:49,800 and in the knowledge area of his office 1398 01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:53,190 he had a photograph of Nelson Mandela in 1399 01:01:57,170 --> 01:01:55,650 the what area the knowledge area of his 1400 01:01:59,480 --> 01:01:57,180 office you're not familiar with the 1401 01:02:02,480 --> 01:01:59,490 knowledge area in French we carry on 1402 01:02:04,910 --> 01:02:02,490 okay so this indicates that he's drawing 1403 01:02:06,950 --> 01:02:04,920 on wisdom and in the area of his office 1404 01:02:08,900 --> 01:02:06,960 it relates to reputation he has family 1405 01:02:12,260 --> 01:02:08,910 photos and this is good this gives him a 1406 01:02:14,089 --> 01:02:12,270 good reputation whereas this contrasts 1407 01:02:18,020 --> 01:02:14,099 with McCain his office is cluttered full 1408 01:02:19,970 --> 01:02:18,030 of knickknacks and trinkets and the the 1409 01:02:22,220 --> 01:02:19,980 fact that he has a lot of trinkets 1410 01:02:25,940 --> 01:02:22,230 suggest that his opportunities might get 1411 01:02:28,130 --> 01:02:25,950 stale or never quite a ride isn't it 1412 01:02:30,230 --> 01:02:28,140 amazing just because this was predicted 1413 01:02:31,910 --> 01:02:30,240 a couple of weeks ago and his 1414 01:02:35,900 --> 01:02:31,920 opportunities indeed did not arrive 1415 01:02:38,180 --> 01:02:35,910 imagination in his reputation area of 1416 01:02:40,130 --> 01:02:38,190 his office he has a bust of Teddy 1417 01:02:42,980 --> 01:02:40,140 Roosevelt and so this hints at what type 1418 01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:42,990 of president he will be but she she was 1419 01:02:46,579 --> 01:02:44,250 asked if there was anything they could 1420 01:02:48,650 --> 01:02:46,589 do to improve the Feng Shui to increase 1421 01:02:51,230 --> 01:02:48,660 their chances of gaining office today 1422 01:02:53,329 --> 01:02:51,240 and she said that yes the best thing 1423 01:02:55,609 --> 01:02:53,339 they can do is to place a small fountain 1424 01:02:59,000 --> 01:02:55,619 at the back left corner of their office 1425 01:03:01,760 --> 01:02:59,010 and this if you keep this flowing it 1426 01:03:03,650 --> 01:03:01,770 keeps freshness flowing and it brings in 1427 01:03:05,690 --> 01:03:03,660 money and opportunity but if they both 1428 01:03:07,579 --> 01:03:05,700 did it would not cancel each other out 1429 01:03:09,410 --> 01:03:07,589 well no there was one major difference 1430 01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:09,420 that Taylor man's pointed out and in 1431 01:03:13,849 --> 01:03:11,970 fact this was a disadvantage for Barack 1432 01:03:16,490 --> 01:03:13,859 Obama so I'm not sure she was correct 1433 01:03:18,530 --> 01:03:16,500 about this she said that his desk didn't 1434 01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:18,540 have a wall behind it was sort of in the 1435 01:03:23,660 --> 01:03:21,690 middle of the room and so this could 1436 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:23,670 lead to backstabbing by his colleagues 1437 01:03:28,849 --> 01:03:26,010 because his back is exposed and there 1438 01:03:31,550 --> 01:03:28,859 was also a door behind his desk here so 1439 01:03:33,410 --> 01:03:31,560 this would lead him to be not supported 1440 01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:33,420 by the people he works with so this 1441 01:03:37,130 --> 01:03:35,130 could still happen i SAT all true you 1442 01:03:41,390 --> 01:03:37,140 should well what does Feng Shui have to 1443 01:03:43,060 --> 01:03:41,400 say about Oval offices that's how many 1444 01:03:45,670 --> 01:03:43,070 pretty complicated that's just I 1445 01:03:50,089 --> 01:03:45,680 understand about you know this the 1446 01:03:52,130 --> 01:03:50,099 spirits and so forth they it seems like 1447 01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:52,140 it would be some some centrifugal or 1448 01:03:56,030 --> 01:03:53,970 kind of a sense but before you are a 1449 01:03:58,550 --> 01:03:56,040 lost English Way going it would be able 1450 01:04:00,290 --> 01:03:58,560 to get out the bad spirits and what 1451 01:04:03,109 --> 01:04:00,300 maybe if you put a founder and I'm in 1452 01:04:04,460 --> 01:04:03,119 one of the office manager after once if 1453 01:04:06,740 --> 01:04:04,470 this is a problem because where would be 1454 01:04:09,310 --> 01:04:06,750 the reputation corner and the you know 1455 01:04:12,220 --> 01:04:09,320 there's no corners in available online 1456 01:04:14,660 --> 01:04:12,230 now I saw something on television 1457 01:04:18,170 --> 01:04:14,670 yesterday in fact which wasn't so funny 1458 01:04:20,540 --> 01:04:18,180 I must say now there's a TV show here in 1459 01:04:22,790 --> 01:04:20,550 Australia called mornings with carrie 1460 01:04:25,099 --> 01:04:22,800 Ann carrie Ann Kennedy has been a TV 1461 01:04:26,930 --> 01:04:25,109 personality and after some years in 1462 01:04:29,660 --> 01:04:26,940 Australia has a morning TV show I think 1463 01:04:32,290 --> 01:04:29,670 primarily aimed at women with this 1464 01:04:34,490 --> 01:04:32,300 cooking their celebrity interviews 1465 01:04:37,730 --> 01:04:34,500 advertorial lots of advertorials that 1466 01:04:42,349 --> 01:04:37,740 sort of thing sometimes it's in depth 1467 01:04:44,870 --> 01:04:42,359 sometimes it's not they tend to have 1468 01:04:47,870 --> 01:04:44,880 psychics on every other week sup like 1469 01:04:49,970 --> 01:04:47,880 that so last week they had two doctors 1470 01:04:52,130 --> 01:04:49,980 come on dr. penny Adams who's a regular 1471 01:04:54,349 --> 01:04:52,140 on the show and dr. Christine Bennett 1472 01:04:56,810 --> 01:04:54,359 and they were both discussing the 1473 01:04:59,420 --> 01:04:56,820 virtues of vaccination as we all know 1474 01:05:00,710 --> 01:04:59,430 would think which is commendable 1475 01:05:03,260 --> 01:05:00,720 absolutely commendable that the show 1476 01:05:05,500 --> 01:05:03,270 like that should to inform young parents 1477 01:05:07,190 --> 01:05:05,510 about the benefits of vaccinations 1478 01:05:10,420 --> 01:05:07,200 unfortunately this caught the attention 1479 01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:10,430 of and wait for this the Australian 1480 01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:13,530 vaccination network now save da 1481 01:05:17,359 --> 01:05:14,810 listeners you might think to yourself 1482 01:05:18,980 --> 01:05:17,369 the Australian vaccination networks 1483 01:05:23,930 --> 01:05:18,990 surely that's a network of people 1484 01:05:28,540 --> 01:05:23,940 interested in promoting vaccinations no 1485 01:05:31,430 --> 01:05:28,550 no it's a group of people interested in 1486 01:05:31,910 --> 01:05:31,440 eliminating vaccinations although they 1487 01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:31,920 won't 1488 01:05:36,620 --> 01:05:34,770 come out and say that they pretend what 1489 01:05:40,910 --> 01:05:36,630 they say is all we just want to give 1490 01:05:42,620 --> 01:05:40,920 parents information and choice that's 1491 01:05:44,329 --> 01:05:42,630 all we want to do but of course the 1492 01:05:47,660 --> 01:05:44,339 information they give the parents's do 1493 01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:47,670 not vaccinate this goes to extremes I a 1494 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:50,970 couple years back i attended a talk 1495 01:05:56,329 --> 01:05:53,490 given by these people some of the claims 1496 01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:56,339 on stage by the various speakers they 1497 01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:00,240 had were that vaccinations is a plot by 1498 01:06:08,089 --> 01:06:04,650 Western governments to depopulate third 1499 01:06:12,170 --> 01:06:08,099 world I kid you not and their evidence 1500 01:06:14,030 --> 01:06:12,180 is from where Richard other conspiracy 1501 01:06:17,829 --> 01:06:14,040 theory restigouche is the Big Pharma 1502 01:06:21,650 --> 01:06:17,839 conspiracy event and also that most ills 1503 01:06:24,950 --> 01:06:21,660 in hospital emergency wards can be 1504 01:06:26,750 --> 01:06:24,960 treated by intravenous vitamin C yeah I 1505 01:06:27,650 --> 01:06:26,760 see you mentioned that to me days ago 1506 01:06:29,359 --> 01:06:27,660 and I thought that was really 1507 01:06:31,670 --> 01:06:29,369 interesting so next time I turn up with 1508 01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:31,680 an amputated limb yes to emergency 1509 01:06:37,339 --> 01:06:34,770 vitamin C I'll just infiltrate sonata in 1510 01:06:43,819 --> 01:06:37,349 C one speaker also told us that we can 1511 01:06:46,910 --> 01:06:43,829 use homeopathy to vaccinate I beg your 1512 01:06:49,069 --> 01:06:46,920 pardon yes but then the next speaker 1513 01:06:51,980 --> 01:06:49,079 speaker shortly thereafter said you 1514 01:06:53,390 --> 01:06:51,990 couldn't use homeopathy to vaccinate so 1515 01:06:54,950 --> 01:06:53,400 they can't even get that story I can't 1516 01:06:58,510 --> 01:06:54,960 even get their story straight these 1517 01:07:01,549 --> 01:06:58,520 people are set so what happened was 1518 01:07:03,710 --> 01:07:01,559 these people bombarded because they're 1519 01:07:05,539 --> 01:07:03,720 religious idiots they bombarded the TV 1520 01:07:07,069 --> 01:07:05,549 show saying oh no you have to have to 1521 01:07:09,140 --> 01:07:07,079 present both sides of the story you know 1522 01:07:11,299 --> 01:07:09,150 vaccinations are able to see just a 1523 01:07:13,609 --> 01:07:11,309 vindictive they treat it like a religion 1524 01:07:15,650 --> 01:07:13,619 I mean the only thing you can compare it 1525 01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:15,660 to is just a case of fun wireless fight 1526 01:07:19,549 --> 01:07:17,730 it's faith it's made based on ever it's 1527 01:07:22,670 --> 01:07:19,559 based on pure emotion and anger and 1528 01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:22,680 faith absolutely yeah so the carrion 1529 01:07:28,250 --> 01:07:25,770 people had on one Merrill Dory from the 1530 01:07:29,770 --> 01:07:28,260 Australian vaccination network and Penny 1531 01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:29,780 Adams the good good 1532 01:07:34,770 --> 01:07:32,480 penny adams and merrill dory on carrie 1533 01:07:37,810 --> 01:07:34,780 Ann came up with the most outrageous 1534 01:07:39,310 --> 01:07:37,820 rubbish about what vaccinations do yeah 1535 01:07:42,190 --> 01:07:39,320 and the fact that they're not based on 1536 01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:42,200 science and they don't work and Penny 1537 01:07:47,260 --> 01:07:43,730 Adams is sort of sitting there with this 1538 01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:47,270 look of just amuse Madonna face but the 1539 01:07:52,180 --> 01:07:50,210 trouble is it gave this rat bag from the 1540 01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:52,190 exfoliant vaccination network airtime 1541 01:07:58,360 --> 01:07:55,010 which was very bad and also they had on 1542 01:08:00,610 --> 01:07:58,370 the line we have an ex nurse who gave 1543 01:08:02,500 --> 01:08:00,620 her story about how she didn't vaccinate 1544 01:08:05,380 --> 01:08:02,510 her kids and her kids are fine he 1545 01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:05,390 shouldn't vaccinate yes so this nurse 1546 01:08:08,710 --> 01:08:07,490 they had on was who probably was a nurse 1547 01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:08,720 at some stage I have no reason to doubt 1548 01:08:13,210 --> 01:08:12,050 that According to Pete about it she was 1549 01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:13,220 our current president in the Australian 1550 01:08:17,559 --> 01:08:14,690 skeptics and has done some research on 1551 01:08:20,530 --> 01:08:17,569 this thing what's in fact now naturopath 1552 01:08:23,230 --> 01:08:20,540 I say you see ya and you know what the 1553 01:08:26,380 --> 01:08:23,240 ND after naturopath stands for not a 1554 01:08:28,630 --> 01:08:26,390 doctor exactly right now Rachel I know 1555 01:08:30,579 --> 01:08:28,640 you've heard this interview yes I heard 1556 01:08:32,349 --> 01:08:30,589 this interview which they then I'm so 1557 01:08:36,130 --> 01:08:32,359 pleased you sent meetings thank you so 1558 01:08:38,620 --> 01:08:36,140 much I was really really angry and this 1559 01:08:40,570 --> 01:08:38,630 woman the anti-vaccination woman she 1560 01:08:42,670 --> 01:08:40,580 uses the technique that many alternative 1561 01:08:45,070 --> 01:08:42,680 therapists and you know believers use 1562 01:08:47,230 --> 01:08:45,080 and that is to just bombard you with 1563 01:08:48,970 --> 01:08:47,240 information so she was just going a mile 1564 01:08:51,550 --> 01:08:48,980 a minute just spitting out all this 1565 01:08:54,309 --> 01:08:51,560 stuff yeah but it was it was difficult 1566 01:08:57,430 --> 01:08:54,319 to keep up with her until she said this 1567 01:08:59,380 --> 01:08:57,440 is not based on science and I've 1568 01:09:01,660 --> 01:08:59,390 realized then I already knew that she 1569 01:09:03,849 --> 01:09:01,670 was an idiot but at this point I thought 1570 01:09:05,559 --> 01:09:03,859 was she got absolutely no clue what 1571 01:09:07,870 --> 01:09:05,569 she's talking about does she know 1572 01:09:10,900 --> 01:09:07,880 anything about how vaccinations are 1573 01:09:12,460 --> 01:09:10,910 designed and how they came to be they 1574 01:09:13,900 --> 01:09:12,470 keep trotting out the same it's like 1575 01:09:15,789 --> 01:09:13,910 creationists they keep trotting out the 1576 01:09:17,559 --> 01:09:15,799 same line again and again and again now 1577 01:09:19,150 --> 01:09:17,569 yeah but what do you mean they're not 1578 01:09:20,500 --> 01:09:19,160 based on science of course they're based 1579 01:09:22,510 --> 01:09:20,510 on science they're based on how the 1580 01:09:25,660 --> 01:09:22,520 immune system functions yeah and they're 1581 01:09:28,090 --> 01:09:25,670 designed to treat to stop invading 1582 01:09:29,710 --> 01:09:28,100 pathogen no I don't get it how are we 1583 01:09:32,530 --> 01:09:29,720 supposed to deal with people like this 1584 01:09:34,660 --> 01:09:32,540 who wish to inflict great harm on 1585 01:09:36,220 --> 01:09:34,670 children and babies it's really 1586 01:09:39,010 --> 01:09:36,230 difficult it's really difficult not to 1587 01:09:41,260 --> 01:09:39,020 get completely hysterically angry at 1588 01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:41,270 quite frankly look why we've been 1589 01:09:48,039 --> 01:09:44,290 chatting kylie is is about to join us 1590 01:09:49,990 --> 01:09:48,049 all the way through hello Kylie hello 1591 01:09:51,610 --> 01:09:50,000 hello and happy election time I know 1592 01:09:53,440 --> 01:09:51,620 with all the stories that have been 1593 01:09:55,780 --> 01:09:53,450 going on about the wonderful news for 1594 01:09:57,460 --> 01:09:55,790 the American election yes we've talked 1595 01:09:59,380 --> 01:09:57,470 about we're very excited about that 1596 01:10:01,810 --> 01:09:59,390 Colleen it's good news is very good news 1597 01:10:04,930 --> 01:10:01,820 well one of the things that I had been 1598 01:10:07,750 --> 01:10:04,940 researching for quite some time involved 1599 01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:07,760 superstitions and although this is from 1600 01:10:11,770 --> 01:10:09,530 a paper that was published in cortex 1601 01:10:14,230 --> 01:10:11,780 back earlier this year in fact it was 1602 01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:14,240 published in june it is about dr. 1603 01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:15,770 christopher french and several other 1604 01:10:22,990 --> 01:10:17,930 researchers look into creating your own 1605 01:10:27,370 --> 01:10:23,000 haunted house yes and it's only just 1606 01:10:29,260 --> 01:10:27,380 sort of hit the main press only recently 1607 01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:29,270 but possibly due to the fact that it's 1608 01:10:33,610 --> 01:10:31,130 been halloween not so long ago oh yes 1609 01:10:35,830 --> 01:10:33,620 again and so researchers from Goldsmiths 1610 01:10:38,860 --> 01:10:35,840 College in UK actually attempted to 1611 01:10:40,870 --> 01:10:38,870 build a haunted room and in order so you 1612 01:10:43,150 --> 01:10:40,880 see what they might be able to find they 1613 01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:43,160 outfitted a room with EMF and infrasound 1614 01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:45,770 generators and then test subjects into 1615 01:10:50,170 --> 01:10:47,570 the haunted room and try to figure out 1616 01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:50,180 what their reactions might be oh don't 1617 01:10:54,730 --> 01:10:52,610 leave us in suspense what yeah what 1618 01:10:57,730 --> 01:10:54,740 happened Carly well I well apparently 1619 01:10:58,930 --> 01:10:57,740 most reported some unusual sensations 1620 01:11:01,720 --> 01:10:58,940 but there wasn't really much of a 1621 01:11:03,610 --> 01:11:01,730 correlation between feeling feelings are 1622 01:11:05,860 --> 01:11:03,620 being haunted and the presence of EMF 1623 01:11:07,660 --> 01:11:05,870 whimper sound or like others the case 1624 01:11:10,180 --> 01:11:07,670 may be obviously they tried to do it in 1625 01:11:11,490 --> 01:11:10,190 a experimental setup and they said 1626 01:11:14,410 --> 01:11:11,500 they're probably most of the unusual 1627 01:11:16,300 --> 01:11:14,420 situation said they felt any sensations 1628 01:11:18,940 --> 01:11:16,310 they went through a probably just 1629 01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:18,950 suggestion just bits expecting to do 1630 01:11:23,620 --> 01:11:20,690 something after being told pre 1631 01:11:26,230 --> 01:11:23,630 experiment and it was probably just got 1632 01:11:28,540 --> 01:11:26,240 old temporal lobe ability of here is 1633 01:11:31,300 --> 01:11:28,550 about taking in and saying this is scary 1634 01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:31,310 Oh Carly can you please um for our 1635 01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:32,690 listeners who may not have caught up 1636 01:11:36,790 --> 01:11:34,850 with this two bits of information I 1637 01:11:38,950 --> 01:11:36,800 wonder if you can fill them in the first 1638 01:11:39,990 --> 01:11:38,960 one is our friend and colleague and 1639 01:11:42,150 --> 01:11:40,000 infinite bill 1640 01:11:45,510 --> 01:11:42,160 I might need our help and also the 1641 01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:45,520 latest news on stop Sylvia Browne yes 1642 01:11:51,390 --> 01:11:47,770 well first of all stop so we are brown 1643 01:11:53,430 --> 01:11:51,400 the website has changed and everyone who 1644 01:11:55,740 --> 01:11:53,440 has ever blogged about it sent it by 1645 01:11:57,990 --> 01:11:55,750 email or possibly even want to recommend 1646 01:12:01,170 --> 01:11:58,000 it to people this new site that they 1647 01:12:03,390 --> 01:12:01,180 have to go to is stop Sylvia dot-com 1648 01:12:06,930 --> 01:12:03,400 it's as simple as that and unfortunately 1649 01:12:09,750 --> 01:12:06,940 it's due to a situation where the 1650 01:12:12,180 --> 01:12:09,760 ownership of the original site which is 1651 01:12:16,740 --> 01:12:12,190 no one there going to be active that is 1652 01:12:19,470 --> 01:12:16,750 the stop Sylvia Browne site rather silly 1653 01:12:21,300 --> 01:12:19,480 person thought that they do the doozy 1654 01:12:24,660 --> 01:12:21,310 whilst Robert Lancaster was unwell and 1655 01:12:26,490 --> 01:12:24,670 snap it up whilst it was on really up 1656 01:12:29,130 --> 01:12:26,500 for sale since the army hadn't been 1657 01:12:31,170 --> 01:12:29,140 renewed unfortunately they take the 1658 01:12:33,180 --> 01:12:31,180 rather odd mistake of thinking that once 1659 01:12:34,650 --> 01:12:33,190 you have the site the traffic's going to 1660 01:12:36,390 --> 01:12:34,660 come with it and of course that's just 1661 01:12:38,190 --> 01:12:36,400 not going to happen malysh you have the 1662 01:12:41,460 --> 01:12:38,200 sort of quality material that Robert 1663 01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:41,470 Lancaster was putting out about psychics 1664 01:12:46,230 --> 01:12:44,410 of questioning so we are Browns tactics 1665 01:12:48,150 --> 01:12:46,240 as it were people just aren't going to 1666 01:12:51,060 --> 01:12:48,160 be interested and so people have now 1667 01:12:55,230 --> 01:12:51,070 begun to quite definitely move towards 1668 01:12:56,850 --> 01:12:55,240 stop Sylvia calm and I think it's sort 1669 01:12:58,110 --> 01:12:56,860 of a bit of an egg on the face for the 1670 01:12:59,940 --> 01:12:58,120 fellow who thought that he might be able 1671 01:13:02,250 --> 01:12:59,950 to get all that traffic because people 1672 01:13:04,530 --> 01:13:02,260 are now going to be seeking sensible 1673 01:13:07,350 --> 01:13:04,540 resources and advice in regards to how 1674 01:13:10,260 --> 01:13:07,360 to deal with Sylvia Browns claims on 1675 01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:10,270 stop Soviet calm so the message is if 1676 01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:12,610 you previously if you've linked to stop 1677 01:13:20,340 --> 01:13:16,090 Sylvia Browne calm now yealink to stop 1678 01:13:22,860 --> 01:13:20,350 Sylvia calm now the infidel guy working 1679 01:13:25,230 --> 01:13:22,870 jealous Oh infidel guy i'm currently 1680 01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:25,240 looking over his web page at the moment 1681 01:13:28,230 --> 01:13:26,650 in order to see whether or not the 1682 01:13:31,530 --> 01:13:28,240 formal message that was put up there 1683 01:13:33,900 --> 01:13:31,540 than before still remained but i cannot 1684 01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:33,910 seem to find it but what I do know is 1685 01:13:38,700 --> 01:13:35,890 that the Imperial guy like many people 1686 01:13:40,860 --> 01:13:38,710 in the current financial problems that 1687 01:13:43,020 --> 01:13:40,870 are happening over in America is one of 1688 01:13:45,300 --> 01:13:43,030 the people who would like to continue on 1689 01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:45,310 his show which you can find an evil guy 1690 01:13:50,359 --> 01:13:48,970 show on infidel guide com but he's still 1691 01:13:52,219 --> 01:13:50,369 looking for additional funding 1692 01:13:54,889 --> 01:13:52,229 because many people had let their gold 1693 01:13:56,209 --> 01:13:54,899 membership lapse and of course it makes 1694 01:13:58,819 --> 01:13:56,219 it really difficult for someone who is 1695 01:14:00,259 --> 01:13:58,829 making a living from these podcast and 1696 01:14:02,509 --> 01:14:00,269 for the material that it puts out there 1697 01:14:04,250 --> 01:14:02,519 to essentially maintain the lifestyle 1698 01:14:06,500 --> 01:14:04,260 and certainly to raise a family which is 1699 01:14:08,989 --> 01:14:06,510 what this man does so if people could 1700 01:14:11,839 --> 01:14:08,999 possibly find it in themselves to donate 1701 01:14:14,179 --> 01:14:11,849 to join up and get a gold membership in 1702 01:14:15,529 --> 01:14:14,189 order to subscribe to some excellent 1703 01:14:17,509 --> 01:14:15,539 material that he's been putting out 1704 01:14:19,339 --> 01:14:17,519 there suddenly he's been a long-standing 1705 01:14:21,409 --> 01:14:19,349 member of the Atheist community in 1706 01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:21,419 America it would certainly help him out 1707 01:14:26,719 --> 01:14:23,610 and that's on in padova infidel guide 1708 01:14:30,350 --> 01:14:26,729 com but isn't here one of the original 1709 01:14:33,619 --> 01:14:30,360 skeptical atheist podcasters to do that 1710 01:14:35,750 --> 01:14:33,629 here's one of the first row absolute my 1711 01:14:37,489 --> 01:14:35,760 girl first I must have it that I first 1712 01:14:39,619 --> 01:14:37,499 heard about it when I was getting into 1713 01:14:41,389 --> 01:14:39,629 skeptic ality and I believe that there's 1714 01:14:43,939 --> 01:14:41,399 an excellent interview featuring with 1715 01:14:46,779 --> 01:14:43,949 him on there from several years back hmm 1716 01:14:51,709 --> 01:14:46,789 yeah now that here's the same way 1717 01:14:53,149 --> 01:14:51,719 speaking about donating listeners may be 1718 01:14:55,489 --> 01:14:53,159 interested to know and if you go 1719 01:14:57,319 --> 01:14:55,499 descriptives own TV there's a link I'm 1720 01:14:59,779 --> 01:14:57,329 actually growing in the stash at the 1721 01:15:03,379 --> 01:14:59,789 moment for medical research he is yes I 1722 01:15:06,199 --> 01:15:03,389 love for Movember they call it Movember 1723 01:15:09,259 --> 01:15:06,209 and if you go to the link you can see a 1724 01:15:11,149 --> 01:15:09,269 daily photograph of life it's we kept 1725 01:15:13,339 --> 01:15:11,159 missing my mustache slowly growing up 1726 01:15:15,529 --> 01:15:13,349 regretting everything bad because of the 1727 01:15:18,109 --> 01:15:15,539 very generous donations by some of our 1728 01:15:19,909 --> 01:15:18,119 listeners and friends I read them 1729 01:15:21,949 --> 01:15:19,919 achieved a certain milestone and they 1730 01:15:26,239 --> 01:15:21,959 moved then the people sent me a little 1731 01:15:31,669 --> 01:15:26,249 shaving kit and here is what will be 1732 01:15:33,350 --> 01:15:31,679 inside razor and don't forget without a 1733 01:15:35,959 --> 01:15:33,360 week to tell our listeners that Movember 1734 01:15:37,580 --> 01:15:35,969 is an international event you so our 1735 01:15:40,759 --> 01:15:37,590 international business can also 1736 01:15:45,159 --> 01:15:40,769 subscribe and donate to Richard that 1737 01:15:49,159 --> 01:15:45,169 please do this what's a nicely for which 1738 01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:49,169 is remote so charities okay I've got a 1739 01:15:53,330 --> 01:15:51,090 little card here look fold-out piece of 1740 01:15:56,509 --> 01:15:53,340 paper that's come with it and it's for 1741 01:15:57,950 --> 01:15:56,519 prostate research and beyond for energy 1742 01:16:11,090 --> 01:15:57,960 on 1743 01:16:13,970 --> 01:16:11,100 this worthy cause it's really worthy 1744 01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:13,980 it's a really big also submission this 1745 01:16:20,110 --> 01:16:15,570 me we're gonna have to put down flipper 1746 01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:20,120 so high it's a tight it's 22 tiny little 1747 01:16:26,300 --> 01:16:23,730 comb in this shape of a mustache so you 1748 01:16:28,729 --> 01:16:26,310 can comb your dash and a little mirror 1749 01:16:30,860 --> 01:16:28,739 so you can watch the stash at the same 1750 01:16:32,090 --> 01:16:30,870 time so that's just wonderful don't 1751 01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:32,100 worry if there's I'll get a photograph 1752 01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:34,170 of that and put it on the west why don't 1753 01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:35,489 you take a photograph right now there we 1754 01:16:41,180 --> 01:16:38,370 go she's going to a camera here we go a 1755 01:16:43,820 --> 01:16:41,190 little mustache on my my my staff now 1756 01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:43,830 the mirror and yeah it's not really my 1757 01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:46,650 status it's a sort of a glorified 1758 01:16:55,459 --> 01:16:52,010 three-day growth oh oh he's trying 1759 01:16:59,270 --> 01:16:55,469 understand your comment it going cuz it 1760 01:17:01,040 --> 01:16:59,280 much too quickly Darius at the moment I 1761 01:17:03,470 --> 01:17:01,050 must appease even though we're not as 1762 01:17:05,420 --> 01:17:03,480 popular as the photo guy and we haven't 1763 01:17:08,540 --> 01:17:05,430 really got thousands of people joining 1764 01:17:09,620 --> 01:17:08,550 up my cam stops all Viacom I think that 1765 01:17:13,190 --> 01:17:09,630 we should probably get more and more 1766 01:17:15,110 --> 01:17:13,200 people checking out skeptics own TV just 1767 01:17:16,700 --> 01:17:15,120 to check out our very unique page 1768 01:17:20,290 --> 01:17:16,710 which now seems that everything from 1769 01:17:24,110 --> 01:17:20,300 camels using Richard space being kind 1770 01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:24,120 that's right let's let's let's keep 1771 01:17:29,180 --> 01:17:26,850 putting up as many ridiculous photo 1772 01:17:32,180 --> 01:17:29,190 closest to be defense that would be 1773 01:17:34,670 --> 01:17:32,190 tremendous you know my donate to see 1774 01:17:36,770 --> 01:17:34,680 Richard some progress isn't where he'll 1775 01:17:38,180 --> 01:17:36,780 like it and actually at the end of the 1776 01:17:40,010 --> 01:17:38,190 month we can all see you on the big 1777 01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:40,020 screen with the mustache very similar to 1778 01:17:44,950 --> 01:17:41,690 the one you grow now is where it right 1779 01:17:47,650 --> 01:17:44,960 yes listeners me may be interested if 1780 01:17:48,939 --> 01:17:47,660 you go to see the new movie Australia 1781 01:17:51,100 --> 01:17:48,949 which is opening at the end of month 1782 01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:51,110 around the world starring hugh jackman 1783 01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:52,489 and nicole kidman and host of other 1784 01:17:57,160 --> 01:17:55,370 stars you can possibly spot me towards 1785 01:18:00,030 --> 01:17:57,170 the end of the movie and when there's a 1786 01:18:02,620 --> 01:18:00,040 dancing sing yes the dances then I do 1787 01:18:04,540 --> 01:18:02,630 it's a bit strange and some shots I'll 1788 01:18:05,950 --> 01:18:04,550 have a mustache and sash some shots I 1789 01:18:08,070 --> 01:18:05,960 won't but anyway that's another story 1790 01:18:10,180 --> 01:18:08,080 I'd like to give a big shout out now 1791 01:18:11,500 --> 01:18:10,190 moving right along with the think tank 1792 01:18:13,390 --> 01:18:11,510 I'd like to give a big shout out to a 1793 01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:13,400 very dear friend of ours Elaine Gilman 1794 01:18:20,260 --> 01:18:16,850 who is in denver colorado and she runs 1795 01:18:23,350 --> 01:18:20,270 the Denver skeptics now friends in 1796 01:18:25,209 --> 01:18:23,360 listening in Denver you can find out 1797 01:18:28,180 --> 01:18:25,219 more about the Denver skeptics by going 1798 01:18:32,740 --> 01:18:28,190 to meetup com and simply doing a search 1799 01:18:34,689 --> 01:18:32,750 on Denver skeptics I know Kylie um last 1800 01:18:37,060 --> 01:18:34,699 year I think it was last year in the old 1801 01:18:39,490 --> 01:18:37,070 tank of vodcast will certainly put a 1802 01:18:40,689 --> 01:18:39,500 link to this story on the blog it was 1803 01:18:43,300 --> 01:18:40,699 actually at the beginning of this year 1804 01:18:45,550 --> 01:18:43,310 that it seems so long ago look like 1805 01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:45,560 really revisit it that's sad but you 1806 01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:47,690 interviewed a very famous and funny man 1807 01:18:53,530 --> 01:18:51,410 by the name of Tim Minchin yes yes 1808 01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:53,540 that's wonderful and in fact to those 1809 01:18:58,000 --> 01:18:54,890 people in Australia who had the 1810 01:19:00,400 --> 01:18:58,010 opportunity to watch a most recent 1811 01:19:02,050 --> 01:19:00,410 episode of Andrew Denton's enough rope 1812 01:19:04,660 --> 01:19:02,060 they would have seen him as one of the 1813 01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:04,670 featured interviewees I saw him he was 1814 01:19:08,830 --> 01:19:07,010 very entertaining he's a skeptical 1815 01:19:12,189 --> 01:19:08,840 comedians new phone now what's that one 1816 01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:12,199 Rachel's at a 747 or 737 air box 1817 01:19:19,330 --> 01:19:15,850 probably a nice refer to something 1818 01:19:24,530 --> 01:19:21,770 Sonny look to it 1819 01:19:27,860 --> 01:19:24,540 sorry right sorry Carly tell me about 1820 01:19:32,369 --> 01:19:30,839 Wow 1821 01:19:35,189 --> 01:19:32,379 that's what I live with that's what 1822 01:19:37,109 --> 01:19:35,199 happened sorry Carly you were saying to 1823 01:19:39,029 --> 01:19:37,119 mention yes not enough rope however if I 1824 01:19:40,439 --> 01:19:39,039 start for the Midway their identity yes 1825 01:19:42,330 --> 01:19:40,449 those people in Australia who are 1826 01:19:43,830 --> 01:19:42,340 fortunate enough to see enough rope 1827 01:19:46,469 --> 01:19:43,840 recently which is Andrew Denton's 1828 01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:46,479 interview show his chat show they would 1829 01:19:50,729 --> 01:19:48,010 have seen technician of here is one of 1830 01:19:52,349 --> 01:19:50,739 the very first guests and not only did 1831 01:19:54,509 --> 01:19:52,359 he hopped back to Australia in order to 1832 01:19:56,790 --> 01:19:54,519 do that interview especially it's going 1833 01:19:58,859 --> 01:19:56,800 to be touring next year around about 1834 01:20:01,799 --> 01:19:58,869 March and tickets are selling already so 1835 01:20:03,659 --> 01:20:01,809 people should jump on and grab them 1836 01:20:05,429 --> 01:20:03,669 whilst they're going because already 1837 01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:05,439 I've noticed that people have started 1838 01:20:10,259 --> 01:20:07,570 nothing about how they're getting seats 1839 01:20:11,819 --> 01:20:10,269 in the middle range and the show is 1840 01:20:13,619 --> 01:20:11,829 happening in knives and tickets are 1841 01:20:15,540 --> 01:20:13,629 selling now so those popular straily I 1842 01:20:17,729 --> 01:20:15,550 should certainly check out our Tim 1843 01:20:20,580 --> 01:20:17,739 Minchin site which i believe is tanisha 1844 01:20:23,250 --> 01:20:20,590 calm party here yes I thought atheist 1845 01:20:24,419 --> 01:20:23,260 comedian isn't he and he was I saw that 1846 01:20:26,669 --> 01:20:24,429 interview on monday and he was 1847 01:20:28,619 --> 01:20:26,679 mentioning the fact that he has a go at 1848 01:20:31,379 --> 01:20:28,629 religion on stage and when he was an 1849 01:20:33,619 --> 01:20:31,389 Embera recently I had someone come and 1850 01:20:37,049 --> 01:20:33,629 threaten him because he'd made some 1851 01:20:39,659 --> 01:20:37,059 comments about beliefs or something is 1852 01:20:41,849 --> 01:20:39,669 that funny yes yes it certainly tried 1853 01:20:43,739 --> 01:20:41,859 that he makes a couple question but he's 1854 01:20:45,689 --> 01:20:43,749 a comedian and one of the things that he 1855 01:20:48,540 --> 01:20:45,699 tries to do is make people think he does 1856 01:20:50,699 --> 01:20:48,550 want to be insulting or certainly 1857 01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:50,709 there's not one of the way our comedians 1858 01:20:55,500 --> 01:20:53,050 who are doing a chest to shock he's 1859 01:20:57,839 --> 01:20:55,510 intellectual and he is certainly very 1860 01:21:00,270 --> 01:20:57,849 well known among skeptic circles simply 1861 01:21:02,069 --> 01:21:00,280 for one of his popular songs called if 1862 01:21:05,750 --> 01:21:02,079 you open your mind too much your brain 1863 01:21:08,399 --> 01:21:05,760 will fall out using rackets take my wife 1864 01:21:10,979 --> 01:21:08,409 yes so I would also encourage our 1865 01:21:12,989 --> 01:21:10,989 Australian asst to visit Tim mentions 1866 01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:12,999 website and and certainly get along to 1867 01:21:16,830 --> 01:21:15,010 see the show well thank you Kylie 1868 01:21:21,209 --> 01:21:16,840 Sturgis for for joining us like a 1869 01:21:23,219 --> 01:21:21,219 hologram why thank you Richard Saunders 1870 01:21:25,169 --> 01:21:23,229 I guess I'll just hop into the sixth 1871 01:21:27,299 --> 01:21:25,179 dimension here she's looking off into a 1872 01:21:28,949 --> 01:21:27,309 phase of cotton the only thing she 1873 01:21:31,349 --> 01:21:28,959 doesn't have amanda is that little 1874 01:21:33,599 --> 01:21:31,359 circle of red line you need to be 1875 01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:33,609 floating on something and being in 1876 01:21:36,550 --> 01:21:35,050 enough if she's moving too much you 1877 01:21:38,890 --> 01:21:36,560 should over arm straight down as 1878 01:21:40,990 --> 01:21:38,900 and Biggio mangroves for joining spores 1879 01:21:43,210 --> 01:21:41,000 and thank you dr. Rachel Dunlop for 1880 01:21:45,220 --> 01:21:43,220 letting us use your wonderful room here 1881 01:21:48,460 --> 01:21:45,230 with a stunning view of the it's 1882 01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:48,470 stunning in your welcome anytime in a 1883 01:21:54,690 --> 01:21:51,050 car going outside so that's cheers and 1884 01:21:58,120 --> 01:21:54,700 jeers ntsc akari hologram woman 1885 01:22:00,250 --> 01:21:58,130 absolutely receive nice we'll see you or 1886 01:22:19,669 --> 01:22:00,260 you'll hear us i should say in a couple 1887 01:22:24,140 --> 01:22:22,250 Richard it gives me such great pleasure 1888 01:22:25,910 --> 01:22:24,150 to be part of the skeptic zone and part 1889 01:22:27,949 --> 01:22:25,920 of creation I love being part of 1890 01:22:29,660 --> 01:22:27,959 creation stuff are just to be able to 1891 01:22:32,390 --> 01:22:29,670 get such a podcast as we've just 1892 01:22:34,459 --> 01:22:32,400 produced it's just been amazing what a 1893 01:22:36,770 --> 01:22:34,469 great show that what a great show that 1894 01:22:39,109 --> 01:22:36,780 was fun i really enjoy that I enjoyed 1895 01:22:40,459 --> 01:22:39,119 meeting Eugenie Scott once again and 1896 01:22:42,350 --> 01:22:40,469 Paul Willis and talking to the other 1897 01:22:44,089 --> 01:22:42,360 people so you know what I think we'll 1898 01:22:46,279 --> 01:22:44,099 have to do it all over again in two 1899 01:22:47,899 --> 01:22:46,289 weeks I think we will once again the 1900 01:22:50,149 --> 01:22:47,909 skeptic zone has been an action-packed 1901 01:22:51,979 --> 01:22:50,159 and fun-filled well well and by the way 1902 01:22:53,569 --> 01:22:51,989 everyone thanks for listening it's been 1903 01:22:55,910 --> 01:22:53,579 it's been really good to see all the 1904 01:22:57,649 --> 01:22:55,920 feedback and you have lots of great sort 1905 01:23:00,620 --> 01:22:57,659 of reports and stats coming through on 1906 01:23:02,810 --> 01:23:00,630 the podcast yeah yeah we're gangbusters 1907 01:23:04,969 --> 01:23:02,820 at the moment thanks and if everybody 1908 01:23:06,199 --> 01:23:04,979 could just tell one friend or even two 1909 01:23:08,929 --> 01:23:06,209 enemies about the show would be 1910 01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:08,939 delighted yeah we want to convert a few 1911 01:23:12,199 --> 01:23:10,170 people we don't want to preach to the 1912 01:23:13,910 --> 01:23:12,209 converted creationists to come and 1913 01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:13,920 listen to us I hope they down come on 1914 01:23:18,649 --> 01:23:17,010 down craziness all right oh well thanks 1915 01:23:20,779 --> 01:23:18,659 a lot reach it will see you see you next 1916 01:23:25,209 --> 01:23:20,789 week or next 49 in two weeks time see 1917 01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:27,250 you've been listening to the skeptic 1918 01:23:35,020 --> 01:23:31,280 zone visit our website at www skeptics 1919 01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:35,030 on TV for comments contacts and extra 1920 01:23:38,650 --> 01:23:49,600 scanty